Deployment Team/Meetings/2008-09-10/Log


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 * Topic for #sugar-meeting is: The meeting channel for the sugar developers (sugarlabs.org) | see also #sugar | meeting time: thursdays 14.00 UTC
 * Topic for #sugar-meeting set by morgs at Thu Aug 14 07:37:18 2008
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 *   people are starting to arrive
 *   hello walter >'''(
 *   and everyone..;-)
 *   I had put together a tentative agenda in the wiki... http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team#Agenda_.282008-09-10.29
 *   A few people have added things.
 *   A few people have added things.


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 *   It is great to have some OLPC folks here as well.
 *   im editing it atm. also..
 *   Rafael, did you hear back from any one on OLPC-sur about attending?
 *   Morning all.
 *   hi all, I'm lurking
 *   Hi Chris, Tomeu
 *   walter: some people but i havent seen one of them here right now


 * edmcnierney_ (n=edmcnier@wireless-105.media.mit.edu) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   Walter: Befana is here
 *   I was hoping a few folks from Peru would be joining us as well
 *   hi all
 *   I don't think everyone knows everyone here... maybe quick introductions?
 *   walter: here he have people form colombia though ..monyu and befana have work with pilots in bogota
 *   yep...why not...
 *   im rafael ortiz from colombia
 *   I can begin: I'm walter bender and I have been tasked by the Sugar Labs board to get the ball rolling on deployment needs
 *   and i-m hoping to help in the deployment team.
 *   We want to be supportive of any needs in the field and also build lines of communication to the development community


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 *   anyone else want to introduce ?
 *   im pilar saenz from colombia too, i'm going to boston next ween to attend the learning workshop at 1cc
 *   Maybe we can meet while you are in town...
 *   I'm Gloria from Colombia. I've been worked whit Pilar and Rafael for 2 years.
 *   walter: of course, thanks
 *   I'm a sugar developer interested in getting more direct feedback from real users
 *   Perhaps the main goal of the meeting is to solicit ideas about what Sugar Labs should be doing vis-a-vis deployment
 *   As Tomeu suggests, feedback to developers is very important
 *   some of the needings regarding that is define ways of communication
 *   Maybe we can start with examples of what works and what doesn't work?
 *   we have for example olpc-sur mailist and especific mailists in countries..
 *   Have any of you seen, for example, the wiki Bill Kerr's students are working on?
 *   http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/
 *   Of course, there is the ore formal blog for ceilbal
 *   ^ore^more ^ceilbal^ceibal
 *   and in other countries we are begining to see work focused to students,


 * rfadel (i=1255122c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dad6744b333ca0e4) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   And recently, the teachers in Peru compiled a list of feedback about Sugar...
 *   but it was to a private list, so it wasn't as impactful as it could have been
 *   walter: yeah i havent seen that one.
 *   We had written a deployment guide for OLPC: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_guide
 *   It has seen only a very little bit of updating since it was first posted.
 *   Is that because it is practically perfect in every way or of little use to actual deployments?
 *   And Bill Kerr has tried to document how to use Sugar when you don't (yet) have XO laptops in his blog.
 *   walter: maybe we need to adapter the deployment guide for smaller deploymets
 *   Great idea!!
 *   What are the concerns for smaller deployments? Can we start a page in the wiki to move this along?
 *   i think befana can do a wiki page of it surely.;-)
 *   Walter: I don't understand.. What do you wanna do whit this Development Guide?... I've seen other deployment guides for activities.
 *   What I had in mind was a step by step guide on how to set up Sugar/OLPC in a classroom
 *   And how to leverage it for enhancing learning.
 *   that guide it-s been helpfull but not wided spreaded..
 *   In the Sugar manual (and Activity manuals) we just wrote, we tried to include tips for teachers
 *   how to best use the technology for learning...
 *   i mean the amyority of the people doesn-t now about it.
 *   But there is so much knowledge in the field that isn't being shared... too much is being rediscovered... we should stand on each others shoulders
 *   Ok
 *   it would be ok to start a deployment guide in spanish for example?
 *   walter: we need feedback from teachers and students
 *   not just translating the english one..
 *   yes. is a good Idea because in this moment there are many pilots getting ready in south america,
 *   dirakx: i agree, and i want to work in it
 *   to include all the specificals in Latin America
 *   Are there more structural things we can do to get information flowing?
 *   maybe a deployment mailist or IRC _
 *   yes, a deployment list
 *   befana: olpc-sur has been great about it at least for south america.
 *   Do we need more lists? I thin OLPC-sur and IAEP are OK for now?
 *   a faq about deployment?
 *   Or do people (teachers) feel uncomfortable with these lists?
 *   What would be in the FAQ that is different from a guide?
 *   teachers form uruguay seem very confortable about it..
 *   There is a page in the OLPC guide by Carla that is a list of tips and suggestions
 *   is that what you mean?
 *   walter: i think also that all this pages should be actively translated and localized.
 *   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide/tips
 *   So we should be very organized about translations... good point and actionable.
 *   we need people that translate relevant issues to spanish and some others that translate all the inputs to english.
 *   walter: i don't see information about contacts, how to begin, who we can talk about.... etc
 *   not just talking about wiki also mailists.
 *   I think we have to find a way for teachers comunication. What i mean is channels for teachers. They can share their experiences with XO laptops and help to other teachers too
 *   I think we have to find a way for teachers comunication. What i mean is channels for teachers. They can share their experiences with XO laptops and help to other teachers too


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 *   Are teachers comfortable with IRC? It may make sense in Uruguay, but less sense in Peru where connectivity is less available?
 *   yes, uruguay is more involved in IRC channels, but peru not much.
 *   walter: For teachers is not confortble, but I think we have to find a way
 *   walter: i think so many small organisations wants to work with olpc but they can do a 10000 xo deployment and they can use usar in other devices
 *   We could make a special version of xoIRC for teachers that launches a teacher channel by default
 *   can't
 *   How about a teacher journal that is uploaded once per month to a common place?
 *   walter: good idea.
 *   this may work in Peru, where the teachers aren't on line except for Pay Day.
 *   The journal could prompt for specific types of feedback?
 *   But it may be invasive as well.
 *   walter: Thar are working directly at classrooms an using the XO, I think maybe we can ask they what they need ( a IRC Channel, a Chat, a list, a wiki) and develop an specific solution for they
 *   The problem we have on this end is we cannot ask because we are one step removed
 *   in my point of view teachers maybe more confortable writing stuff not interacively..like blogs and mails. *so a journal would be OK
 *   If we can encourage them to share their journals...
 *   We can make it anonymous as an option too.
 *   I mean a direct comunication. Many teachers read their mail twice a week
 *   Maybe the wikispace tools that Bill Kerr is using would be good for some.
 *   Would teachers object to a once per week email with questions?
 *   There used to be a system called the Answer Garden which could answer any question...
 *   that should be fine.
 *   that is a very good idea
 *   If you asked a question, it routed it to others and when an answer was given, it was passed back to you.
 *   but also i guees that monyu is refering that once in a while developers should meet in person with teachers and students?
 *   We have an offer for a robotic dialog system for Sugar... do you think teachers would be interested in that sort of help?
 *   Meeting face-to-face is ideal. We are trying to find a way to hold regional meetings on a regular basis.
 *   wow...that would be really cool :)
 *   developers should asist to events organized in deployment countries..
 *   Can we leverage existing meeting that teachers already attend? How do we find out what forums are best to use?
 *   this is the way, we need to meet each other
 *   I should talk to OLPC about taking better advantage of their Learning Workshops as well. It would be easy to add a Sugar component. But this is an area of complete disconnect at the moment.
 *   teachers are proclined to use forums or tools provided by the schools they are working on and also others provided by education authorities.


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 *   is it so befana?
 *   dirakx: yes, it is
 *   We had been working with FISL to include a teachers day at their conference... don't know how successful it was...
 *   Did anyone attend?
 *   dunno.
 *   It would seem like an ideal opportunity for cross pollination of cultures
 *   :( not yet
 *   walter: do you know this one: http://www.ups.edu.ec/portal/page/portal/congresosl
 *   putting some teachers from every deployment to talk on a mailing list wouldn't be easier?
 *   then they can arrange their meeting ;)
 *   so we have to interact more in all the senses not just virtually but also personally
 *   I think we need to do both
 *   Greg D. is working up a list of important events at which Sugar should be represented
 *   But I think he is engineering-focused
 *   We need a similar list for the learning/deployment side of things
 *   i agree
 *   I am going, for example, to a meeting for K-12 educators who advocate FOSS
 *   we can make one and put it on sugar labs wiki some where.
 *   http://www.k12openminds.org
 *   Can we list all such events?
 *   yeah... i think we can work with befana and monyu to do so.
 *   but we need more local information
 *   They can help with Sur. We need all the world
 *   But mayeb we make an example from LA?
 *   local forum, meetings,
 *   yep.
 *   Do the regional OLPC groups attract teachers? I think the DC group does.
 *   Maybe we better leverage those resources as well.
 *   for example in Uruguay and Colombia the comunication has been straight forward.
 *   Yes. How can we spread those successes?


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 *   between OLPC volunteer groups and theachers.
 *   How did, for example, Colombia, which doesn't have a major deployment yet, get started?
 *   Can you guys write a guide to getting organized and reaching teachers?
 *   yes, we can
 *   i think we need to documentate more..wirte more emails, and begin discussions on the wiki..
 *   walter: the effort in Colombia begun independently from he goverment..
 *   some NGO-s are working in small deployments at bogota, medellin and other cities.
 *   I think the grassroots nature of the Colombia experience is important to share
 *   and some foundations too
 *   I've been creating some stubs in the wiki as we talk for things we need to do...
 *   and we expect to have major deployments in regions.
 *   http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team


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 *   Is there more to discuss re communications? Or should we talk about other aspects of support?
 *   move on to support.
 *   Have people taken a look at the FLOSS manuals?
 *   Are they useful? Heading in the right direction?
 *   Are there other documentation needs we are neglecting?
 *   walter: i like it, but we need FLOSS manuals in spanish too
 *   There is a reasonably good mechanism for translating the manuals...
 *   we need also other kinds of documentation like perhaps printed guides?
 *   But we need someone to do it.
 *   The FLOSS manuals have a PDF output that is formated to be printed as a book.
 *   oh nice to know
 *   http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/FM_Sugar_05Sep08.pdf
 *   walter: what is your idea to translatins?
 *   It is not obvious, but it is on the top left of the sidebar menu
 *   +for translations?
 *   http://translate.flossmanuals.net/
 *   I've not used the tool, but it does side-by-side translation and keeps reasonable track of changes
 *   Someone is already working on Italian
 *   so maybe some of the people at olpc-sur could help in doing the translation?
 *   i can write an email asking for help.
 *   and also i can help of course.
 *   But before we translate, is it the right content?
 *   should we add a teachers focused section ?
 *   dirakx: we can write to rap-ceibal too
 *   I tried to come up with examples of how to use things, not just how to do them... See the tutorial section the Write manual, for example
 *   befana: sure
 *   e.g., http://en.flossmanuals.net/Write/PeerEditing
 *   How can we encourage more of this?
 *   we can spread the word and include some translation jams in local events..
 *   I'd like to get more contributions to the writing too, but maybe that won't happen until we have a Spanish version
 *   But let's plan on a sprint then... push this fast and furious
 *   for example the comming events in peru and uruguay.
 *   an sprint would be fine.
 *   there just was an event in Uruguay. Is another planned? (or is Week 2 this coming weekend?)
 *   ceibal jam
 *   That is what I thought.
 *   there is another planned i think..
 *   So, can we wrap up with some specific action items?
 *   (1) I've love help fleshing out the links on http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team
 *   http://xo.org.uy/
 *   (1) I've love help fleshing out the links on http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team
 *   http://xo.org.uy/


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 *   (2) I made a stub for a Guide to a small Sugar deployment
 *   (3) ditto for Guide for Latin American Sugar deployments
 *   (4) and Guide to community outreach
 *   (5) Plus, I started a list of Meeting opportunities
 *   another link regarding that http://www.fedaro.info/
 *   (6) We need to organize the translation sprints
 *   25/28 septiembre el salto uruguay
 *   (7) and most important, engage teachers in giving feedback on the lists
 *   If Rafael gets the word out on these tasks to sur and I send a note to iaep, that is a start
 *   ok will do.
 *   Plus, if we set a date for a translation sprint?
 *   ihelp him too
 *   And Pilar can help get the guides started? (In Spanish is fine)
 *   Any other concrete action items from today?
 *   ok, i can do that :)
 *   I'll write up minutes and post them to the wiki
 *   should i contact the organization of this event in uruguay to maybe include a translation sprint ?
 *   walter: thx walter.
 *   BTW, does the machine translation at the top of the wiki pages serve any purpose for the teachers? Are they aware of it?
 *   It may be worth adding to the floss manual too
 *   walter: no that translation is dumb :-(
 *   Too dumb to be of any use?
 *   walter: in some cases not..bt it gets you started.
 *   I would think that until the human translation is done, it gives at least some help
 *   sometimes it is incomprehensible
 *   FLOSS manual sprint would be nice...can that be set up ?
 *   have peolple at floss manuals done a sprint outside US?
 *   I've got to sign off in a minute... I'll be back in 10-15 minutes if people are still around...
 *   The floss manuals project is run out of Amsterdam.
 *   ok
 *   They work anywhere
 *   fine
 *   I'm back. Anyone still here?
 *   i'm here
 *   I'll write up the minutes from today's discussion. We covered a lot of ground.
 *   Thanks for your input.
 *   walter: where i can find you next week?
 *   I'll be in Cambridge all week.
 *   Maybe send me an email when you know your schedule.
 *   walter: ok, thanks
 *   One last thing for the group: shall we try to meet again in two weeks, same time, same channel?
 *   soudns good to me
 *   fine
 *   We'll be sure to mesh with Greg S.'s schedule too.
 *   oh yeah..
 *   and bring someone from bigger deployments?
 *   and bring someone from bigger deployments?


 * aa (n=aa@r190-135-149-122.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   heh ;)
 *   he wanted to be here badly.:)
 *   tomeu: yeah someone from peru and uruguay
 *   yup
 *   I'll try to make sure someone from Peru is in attendance. Also, Yama will be available, I hope. He is in Bolivia right now.
 *   juliano would be good to have here as well
 *  Hello!
 *   Yes. Explicit invites.
 *   someone from the learning team?
 *   i-ll poke yama also.


 * aa is from Uruguay
 *   Plus I'll push to get Carla to join us!!
 *   aa: hello.
 *   hi aa, was just saying I missed you ;)
 *  tomeu: :)
 *   walter: could david join us?
 *   aa: the log of the discussion is on the wiki: Deployment Team/MeetingLog/2008-09-10
 *  walter: thanks!
 *   Maybe David would join us... he seems shy about speaking in a pubic forum...
 *   or maybe we have a colombian friend claudia urrea she could join us also.
 *   may be that
 *   Claudia would be good.
 *   and Juliano, as already mentioned.


 * dwmw2_gone is now known as dwmw2_PDX
 *   Rafael, let's make sure we get these people to join in next time. If we both ask them...
 *   ok np
 *   Well, let's call this meeting to a close.
 *   thank you.
 *   to all. :)