Oversight Board/2008/Log-2008-09-19


 * Now talking on #sugar-meeting
 * Topic for #sugar-meeting is: The meeting channel for the sugar developers (sugarlabs.org) | see also #sugar | meeting time: thursdays 14.00 UTC
 * Topic for #sugar-meeting set by morgs at Thu Aug 14 07:37:18 2008
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 * eben (n=eben@ip68-230-153-170.ri.ri.cox.net) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *  Good morning everyone.


 * cms (n=schmidt@69.38.139.106) has joined #sugar-meeting
 * gregdek (n=gdk@cpe-024-088-244-139.nc.res.rr.com) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   hello
 *   morning


 * gregdek hullos.
 *  The agenda for the meeting is in the wiki (http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/index.php?title=Oversight_Board/Minutes&oldid=8957)
 *  I think we'll not get through more than the administrative items:
 *     *  SFC
 *     * Committee reports
 *     * Funding opportunities
 *     * Sugar Labs logo
 *     * trademarks
 *     * PR
 *   hi all
 *  Are there other topics we should be including?


 * dirakx says hello to all :)
 *  I see that Ed McNierney is here. Hello Ed.
 *   walter_: hiring would be included in funding opportunities?
 *   morning
 *  Hiring would be part of the funding discussion--perhaps a prelude.
 *  I also am glad to see that Rafael, Eben, and Christian could join us.
 *  They'll bring much needed perspective from the field, UI and graphic design to the discussion.
 *  Let me start with a quick update on the SFC (software freedom conservancy)


 * dfarning (n=dfarning@75-121-151-25.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *  We are *finally* approved as members. The only outstanding issue is getting the agreement signed by the oversight board
 * <walter_> If you could sign the signature page and scan it in to send to Karen, that would speed things up. She'll need the original hardcopy by snail mail too.
 *   sure
 *   ok
 * <marcopg_> yeah, will do
 * <walter_> karen@softwarefreedom.org
 * <_bernie> sorry, I'm late
 * <walter_> I am glad this phase is complete. We are real in the eyes of the law now :)
 * <marcopg_> oh and where do we send the hardcopy?
 *   yeah, it's a much needed step forward
 * <walter_> Karen M. Sandler
 * <walter_> Counsel
 * <walter_> Software Freedom Law Center
 * <walter_> 1995 Broadway, 17th Fl.
 * <walter_> New York, NY 10023
 * <walter_> It means, for one, we can start fund raising!!
 *   great!
 * <walter_> Thanks for everyone's input into the process and helping to shape the by-laws.
 * <walter_> So, on to committee reports?
 *   Sure. Who starts?  :)
 * <walter_> Dave wrote something up I can paste into the chat:
 * <walter_> I have started a number of discussions on iaep about some of the
 * <walter_> purposes and organizational structures of various floss projects.
 * <walter_> We progressed well until we came to the issue of an individual
 * <walter_> contributor agreement. The point of contention was the value of risk
 * <walter_> mitigation vs. the cost of implementing the agreement. We came to a
 * <walter_> consensus that we should seek guidance from SFC before moving forward.
 * <walter_> A second issues that I would like to propose is Should we have an
 * <walter_> executive director position at Sugar Labs. And, should we discuss the
 * <walter_> issue on iaep or wait until the ICA is resolved.
 * <walter_> (This is Membership)
 * <walter_> Any comments/suggestions?
 *   I suggest that we elect Walter as executive director.
 *   sounds good to ask SFC counsel
 *   what's an executive director?
 *   what would the executive director do in the sugarlabs case?
 *   an ed is basically a ceo
 *   he is responsible for the day to day operations of the foundation
 * <walter_> My definition would be to run the board meetings and be the point of last recourse.
 *   And makes the tough call when the board becomes deadlocked.
 *   Yep.
 * <walter_> I hope most of the running happens in committee.
 *   he reports to the board
 *   s/hope/expect/ :)
 * <_bernie> +1 for walter as our ED
 * <walter_> I think we do need someone in this position...
 *   also, he is the public face of the foundation... fund raising :)
 * <walter_> Is Bernie's +1 a second of Greg's proposal?
 * <walter_> Shall we vote? (I abstain, of course)
 * <marcopg_> do we need to define how the ed is elected?
 * <marcopg_> if he is elected
 *   So perhaps...
 *   and then...who can vote?
 * <walter_> I think it is the board's decision. nothing too complicated... serving at the pleasure of the board...
 *   Yep.
 *   the ED only answers to the slob or to the whole community?
 *   oh, ok
 *   Or, should i do a pro con discussion on iaep and then we can vote next meeting?
 *   so it's just a matter of internal organization of the board?
 * <walter_> If the board decides to can the ED, it can at any time with a vote.
 * <_bernie> walter_: yes
 *   Simple majority or 2/3rds?
 * <walter_> I think ED is a board decision and the board answers to the community
 *   We're gonna have to put this in writing somewhere. :)
 *   Ah, governance.
 * <walter_> good question. maybe be should add this to the bylaws and hold off any election until the next meeting.
 *   +1 to that.
 *   (I favor 2/3 vote to change ED and other major decisions, fwiw.)
 * <walter_> David, wanna draft this in the wiki for discussion?
 *   yes, I will
 * <walter_> +2/3
 * <walter_> OK. Regarding guidance from SFC, I've already in brief raised the issue with Karen. I'll try to get some time with her to discuss it in more detail next week. Maybe Friday when Dave and I are both together in Indianapolis we can call here.
 * <walter_> ^here^her
 *   sounds good
 *   cool
 * <walter_> I'll try to schedule something.
 * <walter_> Anything else re Membership?
 *   I don't believe so
 *   i can do my testing committee report:
 * <walter_> Please...
 *   so for next week i scheduled a meeting to form the sugarlabs squad
 *   bug squad? ;)
 *   http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings#Form_the_Sugarlabs_Bugsquad
 *   thanks tomeu ;p
 *   i made sure that our target audience like garycmartin and hoboprimate can assist
 *   and everyone is invited to join of course
 *   that's it
 *   triagebot should be invited as well ;)
 *   thanks tomeu ;p
 *   triagebot is an irc bot to assist in triaging bugs in trac that m_stone has been coding lately
 *   makes triage sessions quite a bit faster
 * <walter_> There has been an interesting discussion on OLPC-Sur about requirements from the field...
 * <walter_> They wanted sqrt for TurtleArt, which I wrote last night.
 *   walter_: managed to add the GUI?
 * <walter_> But I think they are ready to take a bigger role in testing!!
 * <walter_> They are starting to catch on to the spirit of things.
 * <walter_> Erikos: maybe a message of invitation to OLPC-Sur would be in order?
 *   teachers in uruguay look very enthusiastic
 * <marcopg_> anyone we can try to invite?
 * <marcopg_> oh on the list, sounds good
 *   walter_: sounds like a good idea
 * <walter_> Rafael, any specific suggestions?
 *   walter_: that is an example of how comunication between devs and teachers must work. and olpc sur has been great in this sense,
 *   yup
 * <_bernie> walter_: a trivial request such as adding sqrt would be a good excuse to show them where in the code they could add it themselves :-)
 * <walter_> I'm greedy: I want the teachers to become developers!
 *   walter_: will do (i guess tomeu can help me to draft it)
 *   erikos: sure
 *   we have a place on the wiki at http://sugarlabs.org/go/BugSquad for this type of information
 * <walter_> Great.
 *   http://live.gnome.org/Bugsquad/TriageGuide looks quite good
 *   erikos: tomeu that's great
 *   dfarning: good point - i will take care of creating it
 *   tomeu: yeah read this today
 * <_bernie> In nepal, I met a teacher in a village who learned the basics of the shell from Bryan and was asking me questions about python
 * <_bernie> so it's not science fiction
 *   no SF, no
 *   ok there is just a sugestion that is in the sense of keeping eye on the development on olpc-sur, anyways i'll try to pass the suggestions to sugar and iaep
 * <walter_> Hey, not to jump ahead, but I just a phishing email offering us 983000 Euros from the Organisation For Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) for using Active Soft Ware :)
 *   so we can continue to do things like walter's with sqrt on turtle ;).
 *   dirakx: that would be great - we need someone as a middle man
 *   erikos: yeah i can do it np.
 *   too much money ;)
 *   dirakx: perfect! :)
 *   dirakx: it's pretty exciting we are seeing code being written in that fashion
 * <walter_> Anyting else re Bugsquad?
 *   dirakx: we need to keep creating opportunities like that ;)
 *   and then publicize them
 *   tomeu: this reminds me that we miss our head of propaganda :/
 *   yeah
 *   tomeu: yeah ;)
 * <walter_> Let's bring this up again when we get to the PR discussion later... I have news to report there.
 *   ok, let's move on?
 * <marcopg_> erikos: yeah why he is not here
 * <walter_> OK. Greg: Events?
 *   marcopg_: probably still at work
 *   So.
 *   1. Need to form the events team. A bunch of folks have responded with interest, but I need to get them together and start meetings.  A bit slow on that, apologies.
 * <walter_> NP.
 *   2. FUDCon/OLPC event is currently being planned for December. It would make obvious sense to make this a focus for SL as well.
 *   Since we had some success getting SL folks together at FUDCon Brno.
 *   The problem is finding actual space for this event.
 * <walter_> Where is FUDCOn in December?
 * <_bernie> gregdek: I think I can make it for 2. it's in boston, right?
 *   Boston.
 *   The problem is, we still don't have a venue.
 * <marcopg_> gregdek: we have been talking to also have a miniconf at 1cc when coming for fudcon...
 * <walter_> I may be able to get one either at MIT or Harvard.
 *   Paul Frields of the Fedora Project is working a bunch of leads, but we're not super happy.
 * <walter_> How big a venue?
 *   Walter, if I can throw you at this problem, that would be great.
 *   Generally:
 *   * About 200 people
 * <marcopg_> but well, we could just do all of it at fudcon, I guess
 *   * One big room that can accommodate everyone;
 * <walter_> Do you know the exact dates?
 *   * 4-6 breakout rooms for hackfest / etc.
 * <_bernie> * bad coffee
 *   walter_: Dates are negotiable. The space will define the dates.
 * <walter_> Let me ask around next week...
 *   _bernie: The bad coffee was an artifact of location. ;)
 *   walter_: Can I put Paul Frields in touch with you for a braindump?
 *   I will bring my own coffee anyway ;)
 * <_bernie> we don't care what the taste is, do we? it's just an addiction...
 * <walter_> Happy to talk to Paul directly.
 *   I will do that.
 *   That's what I've got.
 * <walter_> Adam Hyde from FLOSSManuals travels with his own espresso machine!!!
 * <marcopg_> haha
 * <_bernie> fyi, I'll be in the states starting circa oct 20
 * <_bernie> don't know on what visa yet... I'll go for the best I can get
 * <walter_> One additional lead re events: I spent yesterday with a USENIX board member
 * <walter_> She offered them as a venue whenever we'd like.
 * <walter_> either a BOF or workshop...
 * <_bernie> walter_: being hosted by usenix would be great
 *   Oo!
 * <_bernie> gregdek: re events, do you plan to come to the ESC on Oct 26->'''30?
 *   walter_: Got a contact?
 * <walter_> Greg: Can you work up a list of major events around the world we might consider approaching so that we don't remain so US/Europe-centric?
 *   walter_: I will do that.
 * <marcopg_> do we have a plan on how to fund travel to these events?
 * <marcopg_> olpc might fund fudcon, not sure
 *   specially south and central america
 * <walter_> My USENIX contact is Margo Seltzer
 * <_bernie> marcopg_: for now, I'm paying the bill on my own ;-(
 *   marcopg_: Not yet.
 *   But having an actual non-profit helps. ;)
 * <marcopg_> :)
 *   OLPC is planning on jointly funding FUDCon with us.
 *   My hope is to have a joint budget of about $30k.
 *   75% of which will be to fund travel.
 * <marcopg_> that sounds cool
 *   Fingers crossed. It all depends on venue now.  :)
 * <walter_> Linux.org had offered to help with a meeting in SF next spring...
 * <walter_> I think they'd have some travel funds.
 * <walter_> I can pass those data along to Greg as well.
 *   Great.
 *   fyi There are some events listed in  http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam#Meeting_opportunities (for ecuador and uruguay).
 *   i'm planning to get more future envents in there (regarding latin america).;).
 * <walter_> brings us to the next committee report: deployment...
 *   nice
 *   I also need to throw Rodrigo Padula, Fedora ambassador for SA, at this problem.
 *   gregdek: next year FISL would be interesting, lots of uruguayans travel there, as well
 *   I plan to be at FISL next year.
 *   For more mate. :)
 * <walter_> We had tacked on an educators day at the end of FISL last year...
 * <walter_> don't know how well it worked...
 * <walter_> I wasn't able to go.
 *   two years ago there were quite a bit of people from schools
 * <walter_> Maybe it was already two years ago. I haven't been in a while...
 *   This is where Rodrigo will shine. He brought 25 Fedora volunteers to FISL, and is doing his graduate work on Sugar.
 *   I really need to get him plugged in here.
 * <walter_> Jim was the one who always liked to make the conference scene for OLPC...
 * <walter_> I have lots of friends in the education sector in Brasil if you want to go down that path...
 * <walter_> Also in Argentina and of course, Uruguay.
 * <walter_> But also in the whole region.
 * <walter_> We need to reach teachers as well as hackers
 *   yeah i expect that deplyoyment team can do that labor..
 * <walter_> Shall we move on to Deployment?
 *   +1
 *   who was leading the deployment committee?
 * <walter_> Rafael has done a lot of work... I nominate him to run the committee!!
 *   walter_: haha thx..
 * <walter_> He has pulled together http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam
 * <walter_> (I added a link in the sidebar of the wiki)
 *   so in that page is the original work we plan to do for deployments..
 * <walter_> Some important documentation efforts are underway... but need a burst of energy
 * <_bernie> +1 for rafael!
 *   very nice content in that section
 * <walter_> some sprints?
 *   i'm hoping to get more input from educators..
 *   _bernie: :)
 *   dirakx: do you need a developer in the committee?
 *   tomeu: sure
 * <walter_> Rafael, did you hear from anyone re the Lima sprint?
 *   dirakx: just asking, I have already too much to do ;)
 *   walter_: yeah..there are like two devs from argentina and ecuador
 *   planning to attend
 *   tomeu: np
 * <walter_> So I'll try to change my travel plans to get to Lima on Monday.
 *   walter_: so i think we are ganning momentum in there.
 * <walter_> I can probably get us a venue at one of the universities.
 * <walter_> Seems to be my main contribution: venues.
 *   nice, should we give it more publicity?
 *   amplify it?
 *   walter_: that would be great.
 * <walter_> +1 to more publicity.
 *   yama form bolivia wants to go also but he has no money for the trip..
 * <marcopg_> mmm where is the propaganda minister when you need him!
 *   from
 * <walter_> I'll talk to Hernán Pachas over the weekend
 *   cool.
 * <walter_> I am working on the PR issue.
 * <walter_> I am working on the PR issue.


 * <walter_> Anything else re committees?
 *   the developer in lima wants to help volunteering so that would be of great help..i think other peruvians could join us.
 * <walter_> We can find Peruvians!!
 * <marcopg_> _bernie on infrastructure maybe? ;)
 * <walter_> Oh yeah. Bernie?
 * <_bernie> marcopg_: stagnating... we're waiting for the second server
 *   dirakx: you can guide them to #sugar or the sugar-dev meeting to introduce them
 *   dirakx: that's alfonso?
 * <_bernie> and we need to make a decision re moving lists and git to sugarlabs.org
 * <walter_> I'll ping AMD again!!
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: we should figure out what we can/want to host at SL
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: it's probably going to be the hardest part
 * <marcopg_> (oh that's what you just said!)
 * <_bernie> my personal view is that git would be the easiest and safest thing to move.
 * <marcopg_> the consensus in Brno seemed to be that it's not worth moving services away from olpc right now
 * <marcopg_> does anyone have opinions on that here?
 * <walter_> I think we want to do the minimum moving right now--we are all spread so thin.
 * <walter_> In the long run...
 * <marcopg_> walter_: do you think lists and git should be moved?
 * <_bernie> when I'm in the US, I'm planning to kick our infrastructure a little along with neuralis


 * nteon (n=nteon@cpe-74-79-168-197.twcny.res.rr.com) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   That is the same consense on the ml, only move when the current channels are over crowed
 * <walter_> Let's defer until next month...
 *   _bernie: that is actually a good idea
 * <marcopg_> walter_: fine with me
 * <_bernie> marcopg_: let's setup git hosting for activities and new modules. developers will be allowed to host their git trees on sugarlabs.org if they wish so
 * <walter_> That is nice way to stage it...
 *   makes sense
 * <walter_> We can get the bugs out that way
 * <_bernie> anyway, the argument about having everything in one place is sooo unrealistic in the Linux world.
 * <marcopg_> ok
 *   tomeu: no it's not alfonso ;).
 * <_bernie> dfarning: agreed
 *   dirakx: he was quite active some months ago
 * <marcopg_> ok let's wait for the server to come and then we can start moving on that
 *   I have 30 mins more before I have to run
 * <_bernie> if we don't get back by amd, I'm willing to put some personal money on a server like the ones ivan proposed some time ago.
 * <walter_> OK. Maybe we should move on.
 * <walter_> Hiring and finances
 * <_bernie> would you guys like to contribute? it was something like $3000 altogether, iirc.
 *   _bernie: we are moving to finances now, so that can be included there
 * <walter_> We have some needs as an organization: more developer help, servers, travel
 * <walter_> I'd like to avoid a situation where we are putting our personal savings in while we are all already putting in so much of our personal time
 * <_bernie> oh, regarding developers: I asked people in the universities of pisa, florence and milan
 * <walter_> I have some leads in several places as well... but I think Tomeu's point is we may want to contract some folks short term
 * <_bernie> all of them asked me if I was in my right mind expecting to find capable students who are also willing to do 6 month internships.
 * <walter_> Tomeu: Is a student intern the right approach to the problems you see?
 *   walter_: could be, but we need to find the right person
 *   not sure if an intern could dedicate full time for 6 months?
 *   riccardo is an OLPC intern and has been doing an awesome job in performance
 * <walter_> Do we have a description of what we want the intern to work on?
 *   but we were lucky to find him
 * <_bernie> walter_: I think using personal savings would be ok as long as it's an investment and not just an expense.
 *   walter_: basically having already worked in an open source project
 * <_bernie> walter_: that is, if the goal is creating a team that can later on be contracted for profit.
 *   that's a lot
 *   The biggest issue i see is the need for a overall project design. big job for a student.
 *   experience with gtk and python is very desired
 * <walter_> Maybe we can convince to fill the hole for us?
 * <walter_> ^convince^convince Ed/OLPC
 * <walter_> If we have a concrete definition of what we want.
 *   walter_: I've been trying for a lot of time
 * <_bernie> tomeu: this is more or less what I asked, and they basically laughed: students in universities can barely write sorting algorithms.
 *   we can put together some bit size chunks for students to work on
 *   walter_: have pushed in the most varied ways
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: well...
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: rwh worked really well for us, for example
 *   _bernie: yeah, normally is people that got involved into FOSS by themselves
 * <marcopg_> and someone like Riccardo could work as well
 * <_bernie> marcopg_: please remind me who rwh was?
 *   dsd
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: Reinier
 * <walter_> Let me suggest that we approach OLPC/Ed/Chuck with a very concrete proposal and...
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: we met him :)
 * <_bernie> marcopg_: he was a student?
 * <marcopg_> in berlin
 * <walter_> I go after some other funding angles...
 * <marcopg_> _bernie: yeah, and he still is
 *   walter_: how much time do you plan to spend on that?
 * <_bernie> marcopg_: oh, yeah... a physics studient.
 * <walter_> I plan to spend most of the fall on trying to raise money.
 *   because sincerely, I don't think I can expect from OLPC a real Sugar hire
 * <walter_> I have a few different ideas which I am working on
 * <_bernie> walter_: what about the team in pakistan?
 * <walter_> (1) I am working on a proposal to the USAID (with the team in Pakistan) to establish a regional development team
 *   walter_: I feel a bit pressed by time, I think we should do a very good release in 0.84
 * <walter_> This is a model that could be replicated... but it won't serve the immediate needs.
 *   walter_: sugar devs are wasting a lot of time in overhead, so little time remains to actually improve things
 * <_bernie> if we find 2-3 clever developers with a chance to become productive contributors, I hereby offer myself as lead of the Whipping comitee.
 * <marcopg_> slow down :)
 * <marcopg_> let's first see walter proposals :)
 *   walter_: sadly i agree - that we can not expect a new sugar dev from olpc
 *   sure
 * <walter_> (2) I am talking with several companies about funding in more general terms (one of which I see this afternoon)
 * <walter_> That might be a source of more immediate funds. I'll try to move quickly on these leads.
 * <walter_> I have a few more such conversations lined up throughout the fall...
 * <walter_> But I may be able to close quickly on one or two.
 *   walter_: would be something that has impact on the 0.84 milestone?
 *   walter_: what would be the interest for the companies in funding? what do they get in exchange?
 * <walter_> I'll try to make some quick negotiations with 0.84 in mind... but I cannot promise.
 *   walter_: Belated thanks for the welcome - after tuning in I was immediately pulled away for another meeting and while I'm now in yet another meeting I've got the whole conversation and will read and catch up as soon as I can. Thanks.
 * <walter_> The companies I am thinking of for general support are companies with a general interest in technology and learning, either through their foundations or other endeavors
 *   Do we want to hire developers directly or use our funds to foster the ecosystem
 *   dfarning: I think the later, except in exceptional cases (like 0.84 may be)
 * <walter_> I'd prefer the latter in the long run, but Tomeu's point is some extraordinary needs
 *   I feel for 0.84 we need to improve some strategical points so we don't lose momentum
 * <walter_> anyway, (3) is targeted development.
 * <walter_> I've been talking, for example, to AARP, about Sugar for the elderly.
 * <walter_> It is a great fit, but we would need to do some accessibility work
 * <walter_> I'd ask them to fund developers for that work
 *   yeah, I think that's worth exploring
 *   walter_: i really like the idea with the elderly persons
 *   sugar's clarity is a big asset!
 * <walter_> approach (4) is to go to foundations. I have a few proposals I am working on.
 * <marcopg_> which kind of foundations?
 * <walter_> re #3, the embedded guys (and phone guys) are also potential funders of developers
 * <walter_> mostly education foundations...
 * <marcopg_> including univs?
 * <walter_> I am already discussing Sugar with some of them and there are many to approach
 * <walter_> But also development foundations.
 * <walter_> I want to get Europe into play more in this regard.
 *   yeah, I think olpc austria have already contacts with the EU funds
 * <walter_> I'll start working up some mechanism for tracking all these efforts.
 * <walter_> It would be great to get more community involvement, as per the Pakistan example
 *   walter_: there is a european research program where you can apply for funding
 * <walter_> I feel very far behind in this because we didn't have our status settled...
 *   walter_: i can forward you the details if you want
 *   walter_: do you think SFC could soon accept donations and pay contractors' invoices if we decided we want to?
 * <walter_> I'd love any details about both EU programs and also national programs.
 *   walter_: ok will do
 * <walter_> SFC will be able to handle the routing of the funds to contractors or other expenses we have.
 * <walter_> I'll try to review the process with Karen and report back... we'll need a means of approving expenses, etc.
 *   walter_: yes now that this is sorted - we have better possibilities that is right
 *   walter_: setting up a paypal fund, as well?
 * <walter_> I am guessing SFC has the means of accepting money through any means
 * <walter_> When I was talking to Stormy at GNOME, she recommended dues... not sure we want to go there... it would I think be hard for some people.
 * <marcopg_> dues?
 * <walter_> Or donations... from the community
 *   oh, a yearly due, for example?
 *   SL Silver Membership. $100/yr.  :)
 *   walter_: i think for someone doing a donation it is important that he can declare it in the end, for the taxes
 *   if a subset of the community wants something done by the project, I think they can propose it to the greater community and just that subset provides the funds
 *   walter_: as business costs
 * <walter_> The tax deduction is an issue outside of the US... something we need to discuss with SFC
 *   yeah, I guess each donor needs to find out the local laws about that?
 * <walter_> We could probably provide some guidance.
 *   walter_: yes, please ask
 *   yeah i think that would be great
 * <walter_> We should beef up the donation page on the wiki.
 * <walter_> So, lots in motion, but nothing tangible to report yet.
 * <walter_> Any other $ ideas?
 *   nope
 * <marcopg_> what about membership?
 * <walter_> You mean dues?
 * <marcopg_> heh if I'd knew what dues are... :)
 *   I had floated the idea of organization memberships
 * <marcopg_> something like GNOME foundation
 *   marcopg_: an amount payed by each member
 * <marcopg_> oh yeah
 *   dudes are usually a set fee that you pay pre year to be part of a group
 *   corp dues sound good for those groups that have more money than time
 *   I would like to keep it free
 * <marcopg_> tomeu: for individuals sure, but for companies?
 *   we can keep it free for individual members
 * <walter_> +1 to free for community members and we can work out a fee for affiliate companies?
 *   good examples for this are at apache and eclipse
 *   marcopg_: that's ok
 *   sorry, need to go :(
 *   have all a nice weekend, cheers!
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: GNOME too I think
 * <walter_> ciao. thanks for joining in


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 * <walter_> Let's leave this discussion for the membership committee to consider.
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: but the fee is pretty low
 *   Walter is it too early to set up a fee structure
 * <_bernie> ciao!
 *   I don't feel comfortable guessing at approximate dollar amounts
 * <walter_> Not to early. I was going to try to get a sense from my conversations with some friendly potential industry partners what a reasonable number would be.
 *   sounds good, I will wait for your feedback
 * <walter_> For the sake of time, I think we should move on.
 * <walter_> I'
 * <walter_> I'd like to get feedback on Christian's new logo
 *   did everyone have a chance to look at it?
 *   i posted it here: http://www.sugarlabs.org/go/Logo
 * <walter_> I think it is very versatile.
 * <walter_> I used it in my presentations this week... it is easy to work with.
 *   the concept is based on the stroke-fill paradigm that we are using for icons in the UI
 *   +1
 *   walter_: that's a good sign!
 *   how do people feel about the color options?
 *   cms: ah following the paradigm is a nice idea
 *   different colors reinforce the concept, and give it some visual variety
 *   Nice.
 *   cms: ok so using different colors is a concept


 * marcopg_ likes the blue one
 *   erikos: thanks--i think it creates a link to the UI
 *   cms: does you want to use a color for a specific task or randomly?
 * <_bernie> cms: I like the green/blue one too
 *   marcopg_: you are too fedora based ;p
 * <marcopg_> hehe
 *   erikos: that's a good question. i imagine using the colors interchangeably as a matter of preference, but they could also be used to signify specific areas of the organization
 * <walter_> Maybe we can chose a color for the wiki, but I think we want to actually keep the idea of multicolor
 * <marcopg_> the idea of multicolor is interestin
 * <walter_> We need a media wiki stylesheet guru...
 *   green/blue has been our dominant color choice in most UI mockups to date....for the XO
 * <marcopg_> should we try to have a few well designed non-wiki pages too?
 *   So it's a logical one to pick as the "default", if there is one.
 * <walter_> or maybe we need to also make a www.sugarlabs.org landing page...
 *   eben: yes, my though is that the green/blue variation is the primary color palette
 * <walter_> I think we probably need to do that
 * <marcopg_> as an introduction to sugarlabs, that is
 *   Sugar is all about being flexible on top of the Sugar Labs foundation
 * <marcopg_> I think we can keep it minimal, but it would be a better entry point


 * erikos likes to take the blue one for the bugsquad :)
 * cms wondering if we could write a script to randomize the color for the logo on the wiki
 * <marcopg_> cms: nice :)
 *   blue for bugsquad seems like a good fit!
 * <walter_> Maybe for the homepage... a dfferent color every day
 *   +1
 *   walter: that sounds great
 * <marcopg_> yup yup
 * <marcopg_> maybe we can just reuse the XO color set :)
 *   cms: hmm, maybe...with SVG and JS you can hack that kind of thing...
 * <walter_> Christian, would sketching out a home page be something you have time for?
 *   walter: yes
 *   maybe keeping the color for a specific day solid helps me to remember what day it is ;p
 * <walter_> We made a pretty good time at OLPC in terms of putting together laptop.org
 *   actually, if you look in the PDF, there are two sketches for integrating the logo on the current homepage design
 *   I will look into the random color generator. we will need something similar for randomly listing corp logos
 * <walter_> That is for the wiki... I was thinking of a landing page in front of the wiki
 *   dfarning: that sounds like a good idea, though i think we need to limit the colors to ones that work together. that's why i chose these four... (but curious to hear your thoughts!)
 * <walter_> something simple, playful, with minimal info...
 * <walter_> but not as minimal as the landing page of OLPC!!
 *   walter_: that could work
 *   i also think that the logo works best on a white bg
 *   cms not totally random ;) just pick from a list
 * <marcopg_> yeah that's too minimal :)
 *   it would be nice to adapt the wiki a bit to accommodate it
 *   dafarning: sounds good!
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: that's why I was suggesting the XO list
 * <marcopg_> there are a bunch of nice ones in it
 *   it's a lab in the end - should not be too clean!
 *   erikos: yeah, that's true. we could definitely broaden the color options
 * <walter_> A fun clean welcoming page into the messy lab behind the door--the wiki
 *   cms: i meant for the too minimalistic welcome page
 *   erikos: got it
 *   walter_: ok :)
 * <walter_> I need to go in about ten minutes...
 * <walter_> I
 * <marcopg_> sounds like the logo is approved?
 * <walter_> Yeah!!
 *   yes
 * <marcopg_> yay :)
 *   yup
 *   awesome
 *   thanks all!
 *   let's make t-shirts :)
 * <walter_> So I will talk to SFC about what we need to do about trademarks...
 *   erikos: great idea!
 * <marcopg_> erikos: we should really do that, at least for us for now :)
 *   marcopg_: yup yup
 * <walter_> Right now, we "own" sugar as a trademark by the fact that we have been using it, but we need to register it, along with the logo.
 *   dfarning: should we get in touch about the color generator?
 * <walter_> I'll ask for advice on exactly what to do...
 *   +1 talk to sfc about the value of our trade mark vs the cost to protect it.
 *   cms yes
 * <walter_> This is cost some money--not for the legal work--they'll do it for us, but filing fees.
 *   walter_: so - it is not used by anyone else at the moment, right?
 *   s/used/owned
 * <walter_> We need to make sure there is no issue with SugarLabs... We've not done the search yet, so somthing may come up.
 * <walter_> But I suspect that since no one has approached us, we are probably OK...
 * <walter_> But we need to do the due diligence.
 * <walter_> Something else we can finally do now that we are real.
 * <walter_> One more topic: PR?


 * gregdek must duck out.
 *   Sorry, gents.
 * <walter_> Bye.
 * <marcopg_> see you gregdek
 * <walter_> I have just a few minutes too.
 *   bye
 *   heh, we should point to our history: http://museum.nist.gov/panels/gallery/sugarlab.html
 * <walter_> I just want to say that the MS/Peru issue work me up to the need to be more proactive about PR
 * <walter_> I opened up a discussion with Larry Weber, whom I had brought to OLPC.
 *   bye gregdek
 * <walter_> He made a recommendation of a firm to work with.
 * <walter_> I have a call scheduled with them next Friday.
 *   would they work pro bono?
 * <walter_> I think some professional advice/support is timely.
 * <walter_> I think they'd work pro bono.
 * <marcopg_> wow
 * <walter_> I'll ask, of course.
 *   good we could use some help generating a public image
 * <walter_> I trust Larry's judgment. Unfortunately, he feels uncomfortable getting stuck between Suagr Labs and OLPC...
 *   oh :/
 * <walter_> But he knows good people...
 *   i guess some do...
 *   i mean feeling uncomfortable about being in the middle
 * <walter_> So I'll report back after the cal next week.
 * <_bernie> cms: can you upload the "sources" of the logo somewhere? in svg format or another vector format
 *   i'll upload SVG and EPS formats (SVG in RGB, EPS in CMYK)
 * <walter_> I still never finished sorting out upload issues last weekend...
 * <walter_> I'll try to fix it this weekend/
 * <marcopg_> upload issues?
 * <marcopg_> oh on the wiki?
 * <_bernie> walter_: for the extensions? let me know if you need anything
 * <_bernie> oh btw, we need a good search for our wiki
 * <walter_> to the wiki... some file types don't work
 * <_bernie> walter_: is it just a config issue?
 *   walter_: yeah, i wasn't able to upload SVG or ZIP files
 * <walter_> just a config issue I'll track down...
 *   ok great
 * <walter_> So, I have to go... meet again in two weeks?
 * <marcopg_> sounds good
 * <marcopg_> lots of progress today ;)
 * <walter_> I'll take care of the minutes from this meeting.
 * <marcopg_> cool
 *   yes, should we plan on two hours again
 * <walter_> seems two hours is necessary...
 * <walter_> thanks everyone. ciao
 * <marcopg_> thanks, ciao!


 * erikos has a good feeling with progeress from today
 *   talk soon
 *   thanks!


 * cms (n=schmidt@69.38.139.106) has left #sugar-meeting
 *   thank and goodbye


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