Deployment Team/MeetingLog/2008-12-10

(09:28:27 AM) dirakx: icarito: that's the question...how should be legal relations between a lolcal lab and a central lab ? (*09:29:24 AM) walter: 1.Sugar Labs and ??? agree to establish Sugar Labs XYZ, a local-to-XYZ entity to do software development, deployment, and support, including providing local and regional technical and pedagogical support; creating new learning activities and pedagogical practice; providing localization and internationalization of software, content, and documentation; and providing integration and customization ser (09:34:20 AM) walter: Yes. (09:47:28 AM) icarito: there is certainly a market
 * aa: dirakx: hello!
 * dirakx: aa: hello.
 * aa: dirakx: when is the meeting?
 * icarito: hola gente ;-)
 * icarito: en 5 segundos?
 * walter: hola
 * icarito: :-=
 * aa: :)
 * icarito: :-)
 * tomeu1: this time is going to be for real!
 * dirakx: aa: in a few seconds.
 * dirakx: :)
 * walter: I was just putting together a memo of understanding of what a relationship between SL and a regional SL might look like.
 * icarito switches his brain to english
 * aa: pablo flores will be joining us
 * walter: When we get to that topic, I'll post it.
 * (09:01:09 AM) aa: walter: hola!
 * (09:01:24 AM) walter: good morning
 * (09:01:47 AM) dirakx: walter: morning ;)
 * (09:02:05 AM) walter: dirakx: are you our chairman today?
 * (09:02:26 AM) icarito: could we perhaps have a quick round of everybody saying name / place ?
 * (09:02:31 AM) icarito: this is sebastian, down here in peru
 * (09:02:39 AM) walter: walter in Boston
 * (09:02:44 AM) icarito: (everybody that's here for the meeting)
 * (09:02:48 AM) aa: Andrés in Uruguay
 * (09:02:54 AM) dirakx: rafael in Colombia,
 * (09:03:02 AM) tomeu1: tomeu in prague
 * (09:03:16 AM) dirakx: walter: if you want to aist me that would be nice ;).
 * (09:03:16 AM) walter: I need to get our friends in Pakistan and Nepal to join these meetings
 * (09:03:33 AM) aa: no one from Oceania?
 * (09:03:34 AM) walter: @dirakx: I am not shy
 * (09:03:35 AM) icarito: walter: perhaps time zone is a dificulty
 * (09:03:39 AM) walter: I
 * (09:03:44 AM) dirakx: walter: ;)
 * (09:03:52 AM) walter: I'l reach out to them all in the next SUgar DIgest
 * (09:04:08 AM) pflores [n=chatzill@r190-64-23-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] entered the room.
 * (09:04:09 AM) walter: (my fingers aren't awake yet--not enough coffee)
 * (09:04:12 AM) dirakx: icarito: maybe we should reschedule for them ?.
 * (09:04:16 AM) aa: pflores: hi!
 * (09:04:32 AM) tomeu1: we could change times from time to time
 * (09:04:33 AM) icarito: great i wish they could come sometime - dirakx lets wait for them to say if its tz
 * (09:04:36 AM) pflores: hi team!
 * (09:04:48 AM) icarito: hola pflores, long time
 * (09:04:52 AM) dirakx: pflores: hi,
 * (09:05:01 AM) walter: hi pablo
 * (09:05:43 AM) icarito: ok so i guess its us for the meeting
 * (09:05:51 AM) walter: so, shall we begin with Rafael's agenda
 * (09:05:58 AM) dirakx: ok..
 * (09:06:03 AM) aa: Agenda at: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Meetings#2008-12-10_meeting
 * (09:06:07 AM) pflores: sorry for arriving late. I got very interested when aa announced me about new ways of working together with SL from Uruguay
 * (09:06:37 AM) walter: sounds interesting
 * (09:06:38 AM) dirakx: about fund-raising status i don't have updates..we don't have money yet in Colombia lol
 * (09:06:44 AM) dirakx: ;)
 * (09:06:59 AM) dirakx: i don't know if walter has any?
 * (09:07:01 AM) walter: I have recently submitted two more applications for funding
 * (09:07:12 AM) icarito: fuentelibre still has the 700 US RMS left - we're spending some on flyers
 * (09:07:20 AM) icarito: we submitted a couple of applications
 * (09:07:29 AM) walter: and Caroline and I heard that our application to fund a pilot of Sugar on a Stick was turned down :(
 * (09:07:35 AM) icarito: one for USAID and one for Alzado.Org
 * (09:07:36 AM) walter: But we will go ahead anyway.
 * (09:07:58 AM) walter: I hae another USAID/NSF grant I am just getting started on...
 * (09:08:10 AM) dirakx: http://www.netsquared.org/projects/free-social-networks-rural-education
 * (09:08:12 AM) walter: It is about Science education and it is global
 * (09:08:32 AM) walter: We can bring all of our efforts together on this one.
 * (09:08:48 AM) dirakx: this is the proposal that icarito and i submitted to USAID coments/votes welcome.
 * (09:08:52 AM) icarito: sounds cool, let us know how we can help
 * (09:09:07 AM) walter: I had started a list of grant applications in the wiki... let's try to keep it current
 * (09:09:09 AM) icarito: actually we should solicit votes because its the only way to have a chance
 * (09:09:43 AM) walter: Sebastian, send another note to IAEP and OLPC-Sur to remind people
 * (09:10:02 AM) icarito: ok will do
 * (09:10:18 AM) walter: Just this weekly reminder is a good for me for staying focused.
 * (09:10:48 AM) tomeu1: yes, reminders like those are good
 * (09:10:58 AM) dirakx: ;).
 * (09:11:52 AM) dirakx: also i think that if anyone knows about this kind of grants or challenges in their countries should let us know.
 * (09:12:19 AM) dirakx: by putting them in the wiki..and writing proposals.
 * (09:12:34 AM) walter: Sugar Labs central is happy to be a supporting party in these local efforts, if it is helpful.
 * (09:12:39 AM) tomeu1: we should get people with experience in EU grants
 * (09:12:49 AM) dirakx: tomeu1: +1
 * (09:12:49 AM) pflores: I was thinking about the grants that ANII gives in Uruguay
 * (09:12:59 AM) pflores: http://www.anii.org.uy
 * (09:13:09 AM) walter: Yeah. I am falling behind on that one. I have mentioned it to a few people on both of my recent trips to EU
 * (09:13:24 AM) walter: But haven't followed through
 * (09:13:41 AM) pflores: The problem is that they mostly give grants to companies settled in the country
 * (09:14:15 AM) dirakx: that's the second point of our agenda today..
 * (09:14:20 AM) walter: It is fine that the money stays local...
 * (09:14:31 AM) walter: that is perhaps why it is important to create local SL
 * (09:15:13 AM) dirakx: walter: it's ok for a Local Lab to write a proposal and get this kind of grants ?.
 * (09:15:27 AM) walter: As an action item then, can we agree to beef up the grant section of the wiki and I can add a regular section to the Sugar Digest about grants?
 * (09:15:40 AM) walter: @dirakx: yes yes yes
 * (09:15:46 AM) dirakx: walter: ;).
 * (09:15:52 AM) dirakx: walter: sounds fine to me.
 * (09:16:10 AM) dirakx: about wiki/sugar digest grants.
 * (09:16:23 AM) tomeu1: I guess will be interesting for SL France to get a grant from the EU for a project in Argel, for example
 * (09:16:24 AM) pflores: ANII supports a lot innovative software development projects. However they're not used to work much with non-profits
 * (09:16:31 AM) tomeu1: argelia, meant
 * (09:16:34 AM) walter: Pablo, for example, can you find specific grants in the ANII site to look at?
 * (09:17:09 AM) walter: In the EU, I have also spoken to some companies about applying together with a local Sugar effort
 * (09:17:20 AM) walter: I need to push them into action
 * (09:17:59 AM) icarito: ok regarding funding i have a small question
 * (09:18:14 AM) walter: ask away!!
 * (09:18:28 AM) icarito: we've been planning a noisy community pr campaign to reject windows in education
 * (09:18:29 AM) andresambrois [i=be401664@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1bda5356c6382d78] entered the room.
 * (09:18:46 AM) icarito: one of the plans is to have a 30 sec video spot contest
 * (09:19:01 AM) icarito: and raise funds to put it on tv (kind of like firefox guys did)
 * (09:20:06 AM) icarito: i've never put a donation button / dont know if it should route thru sugarlabs, guess not, we still have no legal entity here
 * (09:20:13 AM) icarito: perhaps sugarlabs should not be involver
 * (09:20:22 AM) aa: *sigh*, sorry about that, I´m back
 * (09:20:51 AM) icarito: nevermind i guess i'll deal with that
 * (09:20:52 AM) walter: I think we should get you your own legal entity...
 * (09:21:03 AM) walter: is it difficult?
 * (09:21:04 AM) icarito: yes i'm on it
 * (09:21:11 AM) aa: we are on the same here
 * (09:21:18 AM) icarito: requires some help from lawyers but we'll pull thru
 * (09:21:29 AM) icarito: mostly need to get foundational documents right
 * (09:21:31 AM) pflores: walter: I have some specific grants of ANII, but if you want we can wait until point 2 of agenda
 * (09:21:36 AM) aa: pflores can explain it better, but for LATU to provide support to us, we need to be a legal entity
 * (09:21:39 AM) walter: Maybe the SFC can recommend some lawyers who will help you
 * (09:22:05 AM) walter: I will add it to my list of action items.
 * (09:22:29 AM) icarito: walter: ok thanks dont let me slow the meeting, if i have a specific question or request I'll make it
 * (09:22:58 AM) dirakx: ok second point ?
 * (09:23:06 AM) dirakx: everybody?.
 * (09:23:18 AM) dirakx: or is there something more to add ?
 * (09:24:02 AM) walter: I think we can move one
 * (09:24:07 AM) walter: ^one^on
 * (09:24:10 AM) aa: yes
 * (09:24:25 AM) dirakx: ok so aa and others are interested in how is the process of making a local lab.
 * (09:24:44 AM) aa: and what it implies
 * (09:24:56 AM) walter: I have been working on a generic MOU between SL and a local entity
 * (09:24:59 AM) pflores: possibilities and obligations :)
 * (09:25:11 AM) dirakx: yes..so we are making discussions here http://sugarlabs.org/go/Local_Labs
 * (09:25:18 AM) dirakx: walter: that is needed
 * (09:25:37 AM) walter: let me pull out my notes
 * (09:26:33 AM) dirakx: but also about legal entity, i was in the impression that for now a local lab couldn't have it's own legal independency ?
 * (09:26:38 AM) aa: I´m sure that if its along the lines of whats described in the wiki, it´s just a matter of wording
 * (09:27:08 AM) aa: dirakx: why not?
 * (09:27:18 AM) icarito: dirakx: yes why not?
 * (09:27:19 AM) dirakx: not because it's not wanted but because it's an overhead for SFC.
 * (09:27:38 AM) icarito: dirakx: its only an overhead for SFC if we collect funds as sugarlabs
 * (09:27:47 AM) icarito: as sl central or something
 * (09:28:57 AM) icarito: dirakx: there's no reason for you not to form an entity as I understand it
 * (09:29:01 AM) aa: in fact, it could strongly limit the ammount of delegation possible if all legal matters need to go back to SL HQ
 * (09:29:06 AM) walter: Here is my new wording (I'll post this in the wiki too)
 * (09:29:26 AM) walter: vices.
 * (09:29:27 AM) walter: 2.Sugar Labs XYZ:
 * (09:29:28 AM) walter: a. will be co-branded entity established in XYZ;
 * (09:29:30 AM) walter: b. will have Sugar Labs representation on their board of directors;
 * (09:29:32 AM) walter: c. will have web presence at xyz.sugarlabs.org;
 * (09:29:34 AM) walter: d. will appoint a representative to Sugar Labs;
 * (09:29:36 AM) walter: e. will not act as an agent for Sugar Labs nor to take any action inconsistent with the status of Sugar Labs as a public charity;
 * (09:29:37 AM) walter: f. agrees to abide by the principles of Free Software, open communication, and community participation;
 * (09:29:39 AM) walter: g. agrees to operate within the scope of the joint learning missions of Sugar Labs.
 * (09:29:40 AM) walter: 3.Sugar Labs:
 * (09:29:42 AM) walter: a. will help identify resources to be utilized by Sugar Labs XYZ on technical and pedagogical issues;
 * (09:29:44 AM) walter: b. will appoint a Sugar Labs member to the Sugar Labs XYZboard of directors;
 * (09:29:45 AM) walter: c. will include Sugar Labs XYZ as part of the global Sugar Labs community;
 * (09:29:47 AM) walter: d. will not charge any license fee for the use of the Sugar Labs brand;
 * (09:29:49 AM) walter: e. will collect no fees from Sugar Labs XYZ.
 * (09:29:55 AM) walter: sorry for the blast of text
 * (09:30:02 AM) dirakx: np
 * (09:30:59 AM) dirakx: walter: so what i need here it's a necessity of legal advisory to for a legal identity locally that could address Sl concerns and needs.
 * (09:31:06 AM) dirakx: to form.
 * (09:31:14 AM) walter: yes, I think so.
 * (09:31:38 AM) icarito: dirakx: we should be lawyers and set up an sfc latam
 * (09:31:44 AM) walter: I think the local entity has to be the responsible party legally
 * (09:31:51 AM) dirakx: icarito: hehe.
 * (09:31:59 AM) dirakx: walter: +1
 * (09:32:41 AM) aa: I have no problem with that summary
 * (09:32:44 AM) dirakx: that part it's not so easy but should be addressed because each country has it's ouwn regulations.
 * (09:33:11 AM) walter: An SFC-like organization that can help is a very good idea.
 * (09:33:39 AM) aa: walter: do you believe there could be a problem with SFC if Local Labs are legally independant?
 * (09:33:56 AM) walter: I think that would be their preference
 * (09:34:08 AM) aa: right, I agree
 * (09:34:12 AM) pflores: so... in our country we should create a new NGO or similar, and then sign an *agreement with SL, am I right?
 * (09:34:22 AM) aa: pflores: I believe so
 * (09:34:29 AM) icarito: ok so the other way around then, the question... what's local sl relation to sfc?
 * (09:34:52 AM) aa: pflores: I believe it fits well in our short term objectives
 * (09:34:59 AM) walter: None
 * (09:35:21 AM) dirakx: ok fair enough.:)
 * (09:35:21 AM) caroline_: can sfc be a fiscal sponsor to nonUS organizations?
 * (09:36:02 AM) walter: I will ask SFC...
 * (09:36:16 AM) caroline_: do you imagine US local Sugar Labs forming?
 * (09:36:17 AM) walter: But I suspect that the US/nonUS is not the issue,
 * (09:36:33 AM) walter: They are responsible to their members, whereever they may be
 * (09:36:43 AM) walter: But they are not responsible to non-members.
 * (09:37:01 AM) walter: I think more than one local US SL will form...
 * (09:37:04 AM) aa: hmm, I wonder if that can be legally so
 * (09:37:19 AM) tomeu1: oh yeah, wanted to ask about multiple local labs in the same country
 * (09:37:25 AM) walter: @aa: what is "that"?
 * (09:37:26 AM) tomeu1: we are going to see forks and such soon
 * (09:37:40 AM) icarito: tomeu1: you mean honey labs ;-)
 * (09:37:42 AM) icarito: lol
 * (09:37:49 AM) walter: I think we will see forks in pedagogy more than in the software
 * (09:38:04 AM) pflores: In our country, for instance, is not trivial creating a NGO... It's expensive, takes some time, and requires a team involved on it. Some external support is needed...
 * (09:38:05 AM) icarito: i think its healthy that we aim for simple to replicate
 * (09:38:05 AM) aa: walter: that SFC can provide any legal or fiscal support to non-us associates of members
 * (09:38:12 AM) tomeu1: well, I was referring to organizational forks
 * (09:38:20 AM) tomeu1: like what happened in nepal
 * (09:38:23 AM) caroline_: Well I imagine different deployments will end up on different releases just because of logistical relaity.
 * (09:38:33 AM) tomeu1: people will start a local lab and two factions will form, etc, etc
 * (09:38:36 AM) caroline_: what happened in Nepal?
 * (09:38:38 AM) tomeu1: that stuff happens very often
 * (09:38:58 AM) walter: I don't think we should or can make exclusive relationships with people/organizations
 * (09:38:58 AM) tomeu1: caroline_: bryan started one ngo, then left it to create another, if I understood correctly
 * (09:39:02 AM) caroline_: how did the organizations split get reflected in the code?
 * (09:39:17 AM) tomeu1: caroline_: not thinking on code at all
 * (09:39:25 AM) walter: It wasn't a code fork, it was an organizational fork, as Tomeu says
 * (09:39:38 AM) tomeu1: just on the relationship between global SL and multiple local labs operating in the same geographical area
 * (09:39:53 AM) walter: it was unfortunate, but I don't think we could do anything to avoid it... I tried, believe me.
 * (09:40:17 AM) icarito: this is why having a set of principles is important - forks are inevitable
 * (09:40:26 AM) caroline_: if we can have a code base that doesn't need forking when organizations split that is a very good technical goal.
 * (09:40:32 AM) dirakx: icarito: +1
 * (09:40:42 AM) tomeu1: it will happen again and again, global SL should just try to support all the local labs and let them do their work and resolve their disputes
 * (09:40:49 AM) icarito: caroline_: we do have
 * (09:41:04 AM) caroline_: :)
 * (09:41:37 AM) aa: I think we can all agree with tomeu1
 * (09:41:42 AM) walter: +1
 * (09:41:51 AM) dirakx: +1 also ;)
 * (09:42:02 AM) pflores: I agree
 * (09:42:02 AM) aa: pflores concern needs an answer though
 * (09:42:08 AM) icarito: +0.5 - as long as these clones follow some standards
 * (09:42:18 AM) aa: "In our country, for instance, is not trivial creating a NGO... It's expensive, takes some time, and requires a team involved on it. Some external support is needed..."
 * (09:42:38 AM) walter: Does it have to be an NGO?
 * (09:42:59 AM) pflores: some institutionality is needed
 * (09:43:01 AM) walter: Is it difficult to set up a business?
 * (09:43:10 AM) pflores: at least if we want to run for grants...
 * (09:43:17 AM) walter: Would a university affiliation make it easier?
 * (09:43:25 AM) icarito: pflores: you did mention the ani grants were for businesses
 * (09:43:27 AM) pflores: no, an enterprise is easy to set-up
 * (09:43:43 AM) pflores: however it's not so easy to get funds to it
 * (09:43:47 AM) aa: no, but its expensive unless you actually do business
 * (09:43:53 AM) aa: and it will be more difficult to get support from govt
 * (09:44:31 AM) pflores: maybe associating the enterprise with SL could be a good strategy... but I think in this case SL may have some concerns...
 * (09:44:47 AM) aa: walter: Idoubt a university affiliation gives us a legal entity
 * (09:44:47 AM) walter: We need to help streamline these transactions, but I don't know how to avoid them except to partner with an exisiting entity
 * (09:44:49 AM) pflores: let me explain
 * (09:44:57 AM) icarito: guys we're starting to see a pattern here - we should be on the look for something like a SFC latam
 * (09:45:16 AM) aa: icarito: thats way out of scope
 * (09:45:21 AM) aa: we are not lawyers
 * (09:45:24 AM) icarito: perhaps some already established ngo
 * (09:45:30 AM) icarito: aa i'm not suggesting we make it
 * (09:45:40 AM) icarito: i'm suggesting perhaps there's already something similar
 * (09:46:25 AM) pflores: ANII is a government agency, it helps mostly for creating innovative companies. This is a possible road. The problem with this is that we should have a business plan...
 * (09:46:27 AM) aa: FSFLA should know
 * (09:46:43 AM) icarito: but in the meantime we have to deal with these issues ourselves
 * (09:46:58 AM) icarito: pflores: NGO needs a business plan to
 * (09:46:59 AM) walter: So let's write a business plan...
 * (09:47:13 AM) icarito: pflores: at least if it wants to stay Busy - ness
 * (09:47:14 AM) walter: it is easy to imagine ways to make a business here
 * (09:47:29 AM) pflores: On the other hand, if we have a NGO, we may not get help from ANII, but we may get more help from other companies and other governamental organizations, like LATU
 * (09:47:33 AM) dirakx: and then do partnership with SL.
 * (09:47:35 AM) walter: offering support, training, software services, ...
 * (09:48:01 AM) aa: I´m worried about how to include the documentation, translation, and pedagogical responsabilities we talked about in a business plan
 * (09:48:09 AM) tomeu1: hmm, pity we don't have people from educalibre.cl in this meeting
 * (09:48:14 AM) walter: ideally, there is local company that can help set up the SL XYZ
 * (09:48:46 AM) walter: @aa: why is it a worry?
 * (09:49:12 AM) aa: walter: because it was defined as an integral part of a local SL
 * (09:49:28 AM) icarito: business have an obligation to be for profit, is that the problem?
 * (09:49:36 AM) walter: I am not understanding something here
 * (09:50:01 AM) icarito: aa i also dont see the problem in those goals even if its a for profit entity
 * (09:50:18 AM) aa: icarito: of course not
 * (09:50:27 AM) aa: in fact, I think the business idea is very good
 * (09:50:31 AM) tomeu1: I guess local labs would partner with companies, ngos, universities, governments, etc to perform their activities, so may not be so important if they themselves are ngos or for-profit
 * (09:50:40 AM) walter: In my world model, it is fine that the local SL is either for profit or non-profit, depending upon what is the best model lcally
 * (09:51:00 AM) pflores: maybe what aa tries to say is that usually for companies $$ is more important than principles ;)
 * (09:51:36 AM) pflores: but working together with SL may solve this
 * (09:51:36 AM) dirakx: in my case it's better to have NGO because of taxes concerns..a company has to pay taxes each year. f.e-
 * (09:51:54 AM) walter: Only if the company makes a profit?
 * (09:51:58 AM) caroline_: these days the concept of social entrepenuership with a "triple bottom line" is pretty well accepted.
 * (09:52:26 AM) aa: caroline_: not in Uruguay...
 * (09:52:36 AM) dirakx: walter: even if the company don't makes profit.
 * (09:52:49 AM) dirakx: there is an annual fee you have to pay
 * (09:52:51 AM) caroline_: In the US for a small company its not that different to be a company vs being paid by a small nonprofit, the overall tax burdon on the couple of peopel inolved will likely not be that different.
 * (09:53:05 AM) caroline_: aa: Thanks for letting me know :)
 * (09:53:28 AM) walter: well, I think we need to have a recommendation from each region...
 * (09:53:40 AM) icarito: pflores, aa: the legal structure itself is perhaps not as important as the mission / principles / governance
 * (09:53:40 AM) aa: walter: I agree
 * (09:53:52 AM) aa: icarito: it _is_ important
 * (09:53:56 AM) walter: If it is best to have an organization that is directly part of SL, then I can talk to SFC about how to do it.
 * (09:53:59 AM) aa: well, it is important to have one
 * (09:54:04 AM) icarito: yes it is
 * (09:54:25 AM) caroline_: icarito: +1
 * (09:54:36 AM) walter: OK. I'll talk to SFC about if/how we can do this.
 * (09:54:52 AM) icarito: walter: i meant its important to have a local legal entity
 * (09:55:38 AM) dirakx: that's the issue what would be the relation between a local and the globlal SL/SFC ?.
 * (09:55:43 AM) aa: walter: I dont want to loose your "lets write a business plan" idea
 * (09:55:43 AM) dirakx: global.
 * (09:55:59 AM) dirakx: in legal terms i mean
 * (09:56:03 AM) icarito: dirakx: with SFC none
 * (09:56:23 AM) icarito: with SL the understanding walter just texted
 * (09:56:24 AM) dirakx: icarito: ok.
 * (09:57:02 AM) walter: I posted the draft MOU in the wiki (on the Local Labs page)
 * (09:57:13 AM) dirakx: cool.
 * (09:57:16 AM) aa: also, please remember that most countries in latin america have a french school based legal system which differs quite a bit with the US
 * (09:57:38 AM) dirakx: bureaucracy.;)
 * (09:57:41 AM) aa: for example, dont assume that a MOU has a direct counterpart here
 * (09:58:20 AM) walter: The MOU is not binding in the US either.., It is an instrument for negotiating an agreement that would be binding
 * (09:58:26 AM) walter: (I think)
 * (09:58:43 AM) aa: oh ok
 * (09:59:18 AM) walter: But the important think is that the MOU is implying a relationship whereby the local lab is autonomous and self-directing
 * (09:59:37 AM) icarito: walter: if i get it right...
 * (09:59:42 AM) walter: And it doesn't imply the local lab has to be a non-profit
 * (09:59:50 AM) icarito: this is an agreement between two parts to form a third
 * (10:00:00 AM) aa: no
 * (10:00:13 AM) walter: and it says that SL will do its best to help, but only expects that the local lab abide by tis pricinples, nothing else in return
 * (10:00:13 AM) icarito: aa its what the MOU says
 * (10:00:34 AM) walter: @icarito: yes.
 * (10:00:54 AM) walter: But XYZ could be any entity.
 * (10:00:59 AM) aa: oh, right :)
 * (10:01:12 AM) dirakx: aa. can you get informal legal advisory in .uy ?
 * (10:01:18 AM) walter: Remember, this is a first draft... your job is t make it better
 * (10:01:44 AM) aa: pflores: (see dirakx)
 * (10:01:57 AM) walter: I could ask the OLPC lawyer who worked with Uruguay if he could do some pro-bono work or find someone who could.
 * (10:02:11 AM) dirakx: i mean in my case i have like some friends that can help me in doing a local entity..for free ;)
 * (10:02:11 AM) aa: walter: that would be amazing
 * (10:02:12 AM) walter: He is a very good guy.
 * (10:02:34 AM) walter: I'll ask him... another todo for walter :(
 * (10:02:47 AM) pflores: wlater: what you mean with "pro-bono"?
 * (10:02:55 AM) walter: free
 * (10:02:59 AM) walter: as in beer
 * (10:03:08 AM) dirakx: all is work for walter that's not fair :).
 * (10:03:18 AM) icarito: walter: understood - still for the new forming groups this means either 1.-get backing from an already established institution or 2.- form 2 institutions? i'm guessing 3.- tweak the MOU
 * (10:03:23 AM) walter: just shows how bad I am at meetings
 * (10:03:42 AM) walter: @icarito: yes
 * (10:04:19 AM) walter: I haven't run the MOU past the SFC yet... I am sure there are things they will find problematic
 * (10:04:32 AM) walter: but I thin they will be OK with the intent
 * (10:04:43 AM) walter: so please consider this a rough draft
 * (10:04:46 AM) icarito: ok understood
 * (10:04:51 AM) aa: I think we are OK as well
 * (10:04:57 AM) dirakx: walter: when would we have a final statement ?
 * (10:05:07 AM) dirakx: related MOU.
 * 10:05:08 AM) icarito: its a good beginning
 * (10:05:22 AM) icarito: dirakx: i'm guessing we need to propose something too
 * (10:05:29 AM) walter: I think the "final" statement would be worked out with XYZ on a case-by-case basis
 * (10:05:37 AM) dirakx: ok
 * (10:05:39 AM) icarito: exactly
 * (10:05:45 AM) dirakx: perfect.
 * (10:05:51 AM) walter: This is just a guideline for the discussion
 * (10:06:07 AM) walter: so let me know if it is far of fthe mark...
 * (10:06:14 AM) walter: not just legally, but spiritially
 * (10:06:22 AM) icarito: walter: still those "principles", it'd be nice if they were on their own wiki page
 * (10:06:43 AM) icarito: if we're to make them referential
 * (10:06:49 AM) walter: yeah. the About page is a mess now...
 * (10:07:05 AM) dirakx: icarito: can you work in that ?
 * (10:07:25 AM) icarito: dirakx: yes i can only not in the next days - we have a big event
 * (10:07:29 AM) walter: I should move the MOU to its own page too,
 * (10:07:59 AM) pflores: Ok, so let's go ahead... suppose we solve the legal concerns and we have a local SL. It will run for funds for projects of local interest...
 * (10:08:13 AM) pflores: However, the local technical people will need training, or at least will need to work in core sugar projects to acquire the know-how.
 * (10:08:33 AM) pflores: I mean, local and global SL will have to start to work together
 * (10:08:43 AM) icarito: pflores: training is quite sustainable
 * (10:08:45 AM) walter: Sugar Labs community will try to help with those issues...
 * (10:09:06 AM) walter: that is an advantage of a global project
 * (10:09:30 AM) dirakx: Sugar Labs global it's like the community as i see it.
 * (10:09:39 AM) icarito: pflores: there potential for sustainability in training, integration, support, development
 * (10:09:45 AM) pflores: I mean, we should create mixed teams to work on projects, otherwise the association may not be much meaningful
 * (10:10:06 AM) icarito: pflores: sugarlabs is basically meant to work as a federation
 * (10:10:15 AM) icarito: as I understand it
 * (10:10:22 AM) walter: by default the teams are mixed...
 * (10:10:42 AM) icarito: pflores in fact we can coordinate and specialize, depending on our local conditions
 * (10:10:44 AM) walter: but as we discussed at the beginning of the meeting, we need to be more aggressive about outreach to other regions...
 * (10:10:55 AM) walter: LATAM dominates
 * (10:11:16 AM) pflores: more or less... the core working team supported by SL is not mixed
 * (10:11:49 AM) walter: supported how? No one at SL gets any financial support--our budget is 0
 * (10:11:50 AM) dirakx: walter: i think we have to get to Asia for example.
 * (10:12:01 AM) walter: +1
 * (10:12:12 AM) icarito: we just make it really simple to deploy sugar
 * (10:12:17 AM) icarito: then they will come
 * (10:12:28 AM) dirakx: truth.
 * (10:12:33 AM) icarito: computer labs scenario is virtually unexplored and a huge market
 * (10:12:35 AM) pflores: walter: you have no infrastructure in the US?
 * (10:12:49 AM) icarito: may i remind everybody that theres incredible amounts of private schools too
 * (10:12:57 AM) walter: we have a few donated serves and lots of volunteers, including me
 * (10:12:57 AM) icarito: so a market for local SL exists vastly
 * (10:13:11 AM) dirakx: pflores: there is some but it's all donated.
 * (10:13:30 AM) walter: no other infrastructure. do we need more?
 * (10:13:42 AM) walter: and SFC is donating legal services
 * (10:13:56 AM) icarito: the least overhed the better
 * (10:14:04 AM) dirakx: pflores: or are you meaning what kind of infrastructure ?.
 * (10:14:06 AM) icarito: we can do focused efforts, projects
 * (10:14:14 AM) tomeu1: ed cherlin talks about some ngos he knows in africa, we should ping him so is present at the next meeting
 * (10:14:29 AM) dirakx: +1
 * (10:14:29 AM) aa: walter: is there a plan to make SL US sustainable?
 * (10:14:45 AM) walter: There is no SL US that I am aware of...
 * (10:15:05 AM) icarito: yes, "central" and "local" designation is awkward
 * (10:15:14 AM) icarito: can't see the center if US is not center
 * (10:15:18 AM) walter: The plan for making SL sustainable is to keep it a lightweight virtual organization that can help make sustainable regional efforts
 * (10:15:21 AM) aa: so, basically, there is no "central" :)
 * (10:15:35 AM) icarito: aa yes basically "federation" would almost be a better word
 * (10:15:36 AM) tomeu1: well, SL US would be a peer to other local labs, as I see it
 * (10:15:42 AM) icarito: if there were local entities to "federate"
 * (10:15:44 AM) tomeu1: global SL is global
 * (10:15:51 AM) icarito: ah global
 * (10:15:55 AM) walter: I live in Central St, so when I hack from home, I suppose there is a Central.
 * (10:16:01 AM) tomeu1: aha
 * (10:16:12 AM) dirakx: haha.
 * (10:16:14 AM) icarito: tomeu1: lol like variables
 * (10:16:16 AM) aa: xD
 * (10:16:25 AM) icarito: how geeky
 * (10:16:28 AM) icarito: :-)
 * (10:16:32 AM) dirakx: so ok any more concerns everyone?
 * (10:16:34 AM) tomeu1: icarito: that's interesting, to have several global labs
 * (10:16:53 AM) pflores: ok, maybe I was confused, I thought SL had its own physical space
 * (10:17:13 AM) walter: I think some of the regional SL labs will have the intention of becoming global, which means less work for me :)
 * (10:17:14 AM) tomeu1: pflores: several: one is my sofa ;)
 * (10:17:21 AM) icarito: the "labs" designation gives that impresion
 * (10:17:33 AM) tomeu1: icarito: yeah
 * (10:17:49 AM) tomeu1: I think that SL creates several spaces, though they aren't physical
 * (10:17:50 AM) pflores: hahaha!
 * (10:17:51 AM) walter: We do have some space available when we need it--donated by friends of Sugar.
 * (10:17:55 AM) tomeu1: as spaces where collaboration happens
 * (10:18:06 AM) walter: So we held Sugar Camp at OLE's office.
 * (10:18:09 AM) dirakx: icarito: maybe fuentelibre could be a global Sugar-honey Lab ;)
 * (10:18:11 AM) icarito: yes, we even have a "neighborhood" ;-)
 * (10:18:14 AM) tomeu1: the wiki, git, irc, etc can be considered spaces
 * (10:18:18 AM) caroline_: walter, any gargage space to store computers?
 * (10:18:20 AM) walter: We'll cohost FUDCom at MIT
 * (10:18:37 AM) walter: My garage is full of boats and bikes
 * (10:18:53 AM) icarito: oh and dont forget our next event at the Foro Culturas para Tranformaciòn Social
 * (10:18:56 AM) walter: But I could find somewhere to put stuff in a pinch
 * (10:18:57 AM) icarito: hehe
 * (10:19:23 AM) aa: ok, so what would be important for us to have from global SL: branding and training
 * (10:19:23 AM) aa: as I understand, it is about what we can expect to get
 * (10:19:25 AM) walter: So we find space when we need it... but we don't pay any rent...
 * (10:19:25 AM) caroline_: I figure I'll put a plea out to OLPC Boston
 * (10:19:42 AM) walter: any estimate of cubic feet?
 * (10:19:55 AM) dirakx: aa: that's truth..
 * (10:19:58 AM) tomeu1: pflores: and with people like walter that know everyone, we don't really need to have our own stuff, there's always people lending the stuff we need ;)
 * (10:20:12 AM) icarito: aa: training?
 * (10:20:22 AM) aa: icarito: access to developers :)
 * (10:20:23 AM) tomeu1: certification?
 * (10:20:28 AM) dirakx: training in the community way.
 * (10:20:35 AM) aa: right
 * (10:20:36 AM) walter: Tomeu raises an interesting point
 * (10:20:38 AM) caroline_: walter not yet, depends on when we get ocmputers and when we install them.
 * (10:20:44 AM) icarito: aa: training = "capacitación"
 * (10:20:46 AM) dirakx: tomeu1: that's other key issue.
 * (10:20:57 AM) aa: icarito: yup
 * (10:20:58 AM) caroline_: I'm pitching my husbands company to get old computers soon.
 * (10:21:10 AM) dirakx: could be sugar giving sugar-certifications ?.
 * (10:21:35 AM) dirakx: these kind of stuff are important in our countries.
 * (10:21:38 AM) icarito: aa it would be interesting if local SL could offer certification on certain courses / workshops
 * (10:21:46 AM) icarito: i'm working on preparing a workshop
 * (10:21:58 AM) icarito: it'd be nice to have some standards
 * (10:21:59 AM) caroline_: icarito, what is the topic/audiance?
 * (10:22:01 AM) tomeu1: aa, icarito: sugar developers are happy to share they knowledge, but we need to get better at making the best use of that time
 * (10:22:04 AM) aa: what sort of certifications: certified activities/software? or like Sugar Labs Certified Engineer?
 * (10:22:17 AM) icarito: caroline_: teachers in charge of computer lab rooms
 * (10:22:20 AM) icarito: 4 days
 * (10:22:30 AM) caroline_: cool, what language?
 * (10:22:31 AM) walter: I need to look into that further... I am asking at a local teacher training college about getting the teachers a certificate for Sugar training too.
 * (10:22:41 AM) icarito: must bring them to install a server and ubuntu+sugar
 * (10:22:43 AM) icarito: spanish
 * (10:22:52 AM) walter: pythin
 * (10:22:57 AM) dirakx: we worked in Colombia with some professors too.
 * (10:23:00 AM) icarito: caroline_: will happen in februrary most likely
 * (10:23:28 AM) caroline_: in the US teacher professional training is a big thing that is dictated in union contracts.
 * (10:23:46 AM) dirakx: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Deployment_guide_sur/TallerBuinaima
 * (10:24:05 AM) dirakx: it would be nice if the next time we could get them certificates.
 * (10:24:05 AM) icarito: caroline_: yes our regions have budgets for training, so that is basically fuentelibre's business plan
 * (10:24:22 AM) caroline_: icarito, exactly
 * (10:24:25 AM) icarito: re-invent training in a free software community sense
 * (10:24:55 AM) caroline_: So its in all our best interests to have really sharp teacher training.
 * (10:25:04 AM) icarito: bottom up collaboration built in - copying is encouraged
 * (10:25:14 AM) icarito: caroline_: yes it is
 * (10:25:20 AM) caroline_: In the US teacher training is taken far more seriously if the trainer has teaching experience is your region the same?
 * (10:25:24 AM) icarito: we have to stress this is an education project
 * (10:25:38 AM) caroline_: icarito +1
 * (10:26:05 AM) icarito: caroline_: there is demand and little offerings
 * (10:26:35 AM) dirakx: ok so next item ?
 * (10:27:38 AM) walter: a quick update on Colombia?
 * (10:27:43 AM) icarito: caroline_, dirakx: perhaps we could work on a model for workshops - taking pilar's experience too
 * (10:27:50 AM) dirakx: i have to give a quick update about what's hapenning in Local Labs colombia
 * (10:27:54 AM) dirakx: icarito: yes!
 * (10:27:56 AM) icarito: ok
 * (10:28:28 AM) dirakx: so as you know we have been working with bernie's and Ivan's help in doing all the infrastructure part.
 * (10:28:55 AM) dirakx: we have know personal mail accounts maillist and soon to have wikis and an static page.
 * (10:29:58 AM) dirakx: as the link above we are beginning to work with teachers and next year is promising about doing some other trainings.
 * (10:30:42 AM) dirakx: i think we have to be on top also of making a legal entity to be able to talk directly with foundations and others.
 * (10:31:35 AM) dirakx: also ...i don't like to mention this but there is a possibility that ministry of education lend us a couple of classmates to work on Sugar porting on them
 * (10:32:15 AM) walter: there are others working on that port as well... you should compare note.
 * (10:32:29 AM) dirakx: right
 * (10:32:47 AM) dirakx: also there is a member of our group working in making an activity
 * (10:33:04 AM) dirakx: called mentefactos..for doing conceptual maps.
 * (10:33:21 AM) dirakx: and that's all for now.
 * (10:33:37 AM) aa: dirakx: is he aware on tomeu1´s work on Labrynth?
 * (10:34:16 AM) dirakx: aa: yes although this activity it's different in some ways.
 * (10:34:27 AM) dirakx: aa: and is her
 * (10:34:28 AM) aa: ok, great
 * (10:34:50 AM) dirakx: ok next and last item
 * (10:35:16 AM) dirakx: it's relate to some bryan suggestions but i think he is not here. ?
 * (10:36:01 AM) walter: Bernie could give an update re the eBook. OLE is investing in making it better
 * (10:36:16 AM) dirakx: _bernie: around ?
 * (10:36:34 AM) walter: He may be on #Sugar
 * (10:37:11 AM) walter: but maybe we wait until he and Byan can joion us.
 * (10:37:22 AM) walter: I cannot type today
 * (10:37:24 AM) dirakx: yep better..
 * (10:37:27 AM) dirakx: ;)
 * 10:37:40 AM) dirakx: anyone wants to add more ?
 * (10:37:43 AM) walter: So, wrap up? It has been 90 minutes.
 * (10:38:13 AM) dirakx: yes.
 * (10:38:26 AM) icarito: ok
 * (10:38:28 AM) icarito: thank you guys
 * (10:38:32 AM) caroline_: yup, I'm heading out the door
 * (10:38:39 AM) dirakx: bye everyone..
 * (10:38:45 AM) walter: Rafael, will you be writing up minutes?
 * (10:38:49 AM) dirakx: thanks for a good meeting
 * (10:38:53 AM) aa: great
 * (10:38:58 AM) aa: thanks all!
 * (10:39:01 AM) walter: to remind me of all things I volunteered to do?
 * (10:39:05 AM) icarito: federation sugarlabs rules :-P
 * (10:39:06 AM) dirakx: walter: yes
 * (10:39:16 AM) walter: thanks everyone.
 * (10:39:26 AM) dirakx: walter: np.
 * (10:39:32 AM) dirakx: bye all.
 * (10:39:48 AM) aa: bye
 * (10:39:56 AM) walter: ciao
 * (10:40:05 AM) walter: (Caroline, see you in an hour)
 * (10:40:20 AM) walter left the room (quit: "ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008111318]").
 * (10:40:25 AM) caroline_: 50 minutes :)
 * (10:41:03 AM) homunq_: I missed the meeting?
 * (10:41:15 AM) dirakx: homunq_: yep :)
 * (10:41:25 AM) homunq_: oh well. I can read the log
 * (10:41:29 AM) dirakx: but i'm working on minutes.
 * (10:41:31 AM) dirakx: also..
 * (10:41:42 AM) aa: homunq_: hi!
 * (10:41:46 AM) homunq_: hi
 * (10:42:22 AM) aa: homunq_: I´ve decided to pay the trip to xocamp myself...
 * (10:42:23 AM) icarito: hay que decirle a walter que hable castellano - somos mayoría absoluta
 * (10:42:27 AM) icarito: :-)
 * (10:42:28 AM) aa: jaja
 * (10:42:36 AM) aa: icarito: +1
 * (10:42:42 AM) homunq_: yesterday I had a meeting with a rep from an org which could be a home for sugarlabs guatemala or ole guatemala
 * (10:43:01 AM) homunq_: bueno, yo cuento de los dos lados
 * (10:43:13 AM) homunq_: la verdad ingles es mi idioma materna
 * (10:43:36 AM) tomeu1: homunq_: idioma is masculine :p
 * (10:43:53 AM) icarito: those darn exceptions
 * (10:43:55 AM) icarito: lol
 * (10:43:56 AM) homunq_: tomeu: even in catalan?
 * (10:44:02 AM) icarito: we should all just learn esperanto jajaja
 * (10:44:25 AM) icarito: anyway aprovechando que estamos aca los latam
 * (10:44:27 AM) homunq_: lengua, pues
 * (10:44:34 AM) icarito: creo que debemos esforzarnos mas por mostrar una identidad unificada
 * (10:44:42 AM) icarito: para ellos somos una nube
 * (10:44:56 AM) icarito: y no compartimos mucha informacion que podría sernos utiles
 * (10:45:16 AM) icarito: de hecho para nosotros mismos somos una nube tambien
 * (10:45:33 AM) icarito: olpc-sur es un gran comienzo
 * (10:45:35 AM) icarito: un gol de yama
 * (10:45:41 AM) icarito: debemos extenderlo
 * (10:45:51 AM) homunq_: ... I was talking about my meeting yesterday
 * (10:46:20 AM) aa: homunq_: what organization?
 * (10:46:33 AM) homunq_: Guatemala has problems with sectarianism.. aa: Fundacion Argos
 * (10:47:07 AM) homunq_: my idea was to do the Sugarlabs/OLE Guatemala as an inter-organizational committee to avoid that.
 * (10:47:22 AM) aa: is that the president´s wife org?
 * (10:47:29 AM) icarito: homunq_: interesting
 * (10:48:31 AM) homunq_: Argos is science professors; Edulibre is young, less vision but more energy; Prodessa is a giant org that does rural trainings; FundaTICS does open source stuff too; and there's a little open-source/disabled org that I forget the name of.
 * (10:48:33 AM) tomeu1: homunq_: why not an independent organization that partners with other organizations?
 * (10:48:50 AM) homunq_: no the president's wife's thing is SOSEP
 * (10:48:55 AM) homunq_: that is pure politics
 * (10:49:10 AM) homunq_: we have to talk to them, but do not want them to be part of us.
 * (10:49:24 AM) ***aa has to run but would love to hear more
 * (10:49:36 AM) homunq_: tomeu1: because nobody wants to join an organization, they all just want to found one
 * (10:49:43 AM) aa: dirakx: can you include a summary of homunq_s comments in the minutes?
 * (10:49:46 AM) homunq_: so let them, and make an org of orgs.
 * (10:49:54 AM) dirakx: wow..
 * (10:50:07 AM) tomeu1: homunq_: who is talking about joining? I said partnering with
 * (10:50:27 AM) dirakx: aa. yep why not.
 * (10:50:39 AM) aa: great!
 * (10:50:41 AM) aa: thanks!
 * (10:50:41 AM) dirakx: i'm afk.
 * (10:50:43 AM) tomeu1: most ngos must be used to partnering with others, right?
 * (10:50:45 AM) dirakx: but yes.
 * (10:50:45 AM) aa: bye all!
 * (10:51:16 AM) aa left the room (quit: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client").
 * (10:51:54 AM) homunq_: anyway, I guess I'm too late to really discuss this here.
 * (10:52:03 AM) homunq_: were there any OLE folks at this meeting?
 * (10:52:08 AM) icarito: homunq_: walter is gone
 * (10:52:33 AM) homunq_: walter is sugarlabs and not OLE, right?
 * (10:52:33 AM) icarito: not that i know of - btw who are OLE folks?
 * (10:52:40 AM) homunq_: chr__
 * (10:52:45 AM) homunq_: is the only one I know of
 * (10:52:51 AM) homunq_: who does IRC
 * (10:53:04 AM) homunq_: chris rowe
 * (10:53:25 AM) icarito: never met
 * (10:53:29 AM) homunq_: but I think that walter hangs out with some of them. OLE USA is based in boston.
 * (10:53:46 AM) xobot: chr__ was last seen on #sugar-meeting 5 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes and 36 seconds ago, saying: it seems like Okular http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okular would be a good reader to work from as well [Thu Dec 4 23:05:45 2008]