Oversight Board/2010/Meeting Log-2010-05-14


 * #startmeeting
 *   Meeting started at 11:10 UTC. The chair is walterbender.
 * Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK
 *   #TOPIC Trademark
 * Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions.
 * I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks.
 *  we'll need to follow up
 *   Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros?
 *   no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet
 * walterbender heard that bernie may join us
 *   cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora
 *  I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives
 *   In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone.
 * We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy.
 *   there may be others I don't recall.
 * hi bernie
 * SeanDaly greets bernie
 *   #action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting
 * Shall we move on to the main topic?
 *  walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond
 *  @*#! damn the university is firewalled
 * [INFO] 2 matches for “bernie”: [bernie, bernie__]
 * bernie__ is using a web chat
 *  aside from label program
 *   bernie__: tor is your friend :)
 * mchua_afk apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog
 * --> $dayjob_unexpectedness
 *   SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,.
 * hi mel
 * #topic vacancies
 *  walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review?
 *  walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit)
 *   SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :)
 *  :D
 *   CanoeBerry: I think it's this one: http://activitycentral.org/
 *   SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday.
 *  haven't heard back from gnomies yet though
 *   at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change
 *  but OLPC-A is reviewing
 *   cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :)
 *  cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar
 *   SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean? I'm talking about dfarning's site
 * unless dfarning is also making a press release
 *  cjb: no sorry I'm confused
 *   np
 * I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development
 *  I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there
 *   yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :)
 *   cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting.
 *  a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large....
 *   walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities
 *   AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities...
 *  walterbender: he means competition for ASLO
 *   but I can't think of any other friction
 *   I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen
 * seems like a win for us
 *  my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all.
 *   I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site.
 *   But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate.
 * <bernie__> DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team
 *   sure :)
 * <SeanDaly> if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him
 *   Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss.
 * related to developer resources
 * <bernie__> the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/
 *   we have a specific issue and a meta topic...
 * <bernie__> +1 for moving on
 *   the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions
 * the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies
 * and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with
 * the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90
 * (We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.)
 * <SeanDaly> it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead
 * <bernie__> I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success.
 * <CanoeBerry> aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com
 *   bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2)
 * <bernie__> CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-(
 * <rgs_> (can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?)
 * <CanoeBerry> bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts..
 * <bernie__> rgs_: yes
 * rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-)
 * <rgs_> what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture
 * <bernie__> CanoeBerry: dunno...
 *   another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck.
 *   rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input
 *   rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments.
 * <bernie__> walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-(
 * <SeanDaly> a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart
 *   rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions.
 * SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him.
 * <rgs_> I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users)
 *   rgs_: cool!
 * <SeanDaly> rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us
 *   rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments...
 * <rgs_> walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p
 *   rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said
 *   someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users.
 * <rgs_> k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever!
 *   yeah
 * <bernie__> rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair.
 * <rgs_> (that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task)
 *   it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :)
 *   well maybe have a solution of (1) :)
 *   rgs_: you get my vote
 * <SeanDaly> rgs_: i'm in awe
 *   cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers...
 * rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :)
 * <rgs_> translation bots are a commodity nowadays :)
 * bernie__ is biased (rgs is my boss)
 * <rgs_> walterbender: probably yes :)
 * walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL
 * <bernie__> I guess I should abstain from voting on this
 *   rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting.
 * <rgs_> and wants to cooperate in any possible way
 *   bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote
 *   this raises one of the meta issues...
 * <bernie__> thanks
 * <rgs_> so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours
 *   I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules).
 * but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input.
 * <bernie__> the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast.
 *   I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas
 * In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community
 * <bernie__> walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1
 * walterbender: same for silbe
 * walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already)
 *   and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes.
 *   sounds good
 * <CanoeBerry> rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed!
 * bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :)
 *   CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :)
 * <bernie__> walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar
 *   bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position...
 * It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project.
 *   walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps?
 * <bernie__> cjb: +1
 * <SeanDaly> cjb: you mean if more than one candidate?
 * <bernie__> cjb: but we have to be fast
 *   SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :)
 *   cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great
 * <bernie__> cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development
 *   walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans
 * <bernie__> cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months
 *   so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable
 * bernie__: two-week election, perhaps?
 * <SeanDaly> here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting
 * <bernie__> I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week.
 *   bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :)
 * <SeanDaly> the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites
 * <bernie__> cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks
 * <SeanDaly> we could consider advertising for talent
 *   bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think
 * SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide
 * a
 *   SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles.
 * <bernie__> cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho
 * cjb: review != ack
 *   SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates?
 * bernie__: *nod*
 *   seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election.
 * <SeanDaly> ok
 *   I'm happy to run the election
 * if that helps
 * although I haven't set up selectricity before
 *   cjb: +1
 *   I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him
 * <CanoeBerry> how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously..
 *   CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting?
 *   cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :)
 * <CanoeBerry> how about 10+10 days?
 *   walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member
 * CanoeBerry: sure, good idea
 *   cjb: we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee
 *   ah hah
 *   cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall
 *   excellent
 * I'll mail him
 *   shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback?
 *   #action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead.
 * <CanoeBerry> CJB needs a pretty dress too.
 * Sorry ;)
 *   cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording
 * So, what about Release Manager?
 * I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized.
 * He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90
 * This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule.
 * <CanoeBerry> Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;)
 *   Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility.
 * I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up...
 * <CanoeBerry> Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues..
 *   In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback.
 * bernie is back
 * <CanoeBerry> Time Check?
 * <SeanDaly> lunchtime? tea time?
 *   so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead?
 *   we need to end...
 *   cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please?
 *   any further ideas re RM?
 *   bernie: yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time.
 * (that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.)
 *   cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream.
 * alsroot: maybe you could do it?
 * because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry.
 *   bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead
 * and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM?
 * any other ideas?
 * <CanoeBerry> great ideas.
 * pretty dress was not entirely a joke.
 * honoring our roles, making them attractive..
 *   speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead...
 * maybe that should be a motion
 *   hear hear :)
 * <CanoeBerry> YES
 * <SeanDaly> hark
 *   walterbender: +1
 *   They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities.
 *   so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities
 * shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then.
 * <CanoeBerry> the primaries at least!
 * dogi waves ...
 * <CanoeBerry> dogi: you around tonight at the party etc?
 * <rgs_> walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team
 *   bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear
 *   walterbender: +1
 *   rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours
 * alsroot: I agree
 * <rgs_> walterbender: great
 * rgs_ ---> Caacupe
 *   ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today.
 * thanks everyone.
 * #endmeeting
 *   Meeting finished at 12:16.
 * Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.log.20100514_1110.html
 * Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.log.20100514_1110.html