Oversight Board/2008/Log-2008-09-05


 *   Is everyone together right now?
 *   Who is here? Shall we get started?


 * cjl (n=chatzill@12.44.50.248) has joined #sugar-meeting
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 *   Presto!
 *   hello
 *   Is Marco around? And Chris Ball?
 *   walter: hello
 *   Hello everyone.
 *   pinged cjb in #sugar
 *   I put together an agenda in the wiki: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Oversight Board/Minutes#Friday_5_September_2008_-_14.00_.28UTC.29


 * erikos (n=erikos@wireless-196.fi.muni.cz) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   I'd like to discuss some bureaucratic issues first, as this is the first meeting of the elected Oversight Board
 *   ok
 *   We've been pretty good about things like minutes, but let's appoint someone at each meeting to be responsible for them.
 *   ok :)
 *   I'm happy to do it this time.
 *   A couple of other things that are at loose ends, at least in my mind:
 *   Presumably this is an open meeting.
 *   I hope so.
 *   I didn't announce it other than in the Sugar DIgest though.
 *   Should we announce it to sugar and iaep?
 *   I have no objection.
 *   sounds good
 *   How do we handle visitors?
 *   Do we allow people to participate, or watch, or what?
 *   Good question.
 *   I think we let people participate, but if we need to vote on something, the board would do that.
 *   Fine for me.
 *   The more minds the better, at least at this scale.


 * NerdyNipple-f169 (n=urk@wireless-232.fi.muni.cz) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   Which brings me to another issue: I'd like to propose we explicitly invite some folks to these meetings.


 * NerdyNipple-f169 is now known as _bernieXO
 *   The board is a great group, but very tech-centric. We are underrepresented in the deployments and learning.
 *   As recurrent guests, or from time to time depending on the topic, or what?
 * <_bernieXO> true
 *   I think as permanent -- non-voting until/if we change the by-laws -- members
 *   I'd like to ask a designer (Eben or Christian perhaps) to be here.
 *   I'd like Hernan or Paulo from deployments to be here.
 *   yeah I'm actually sad that Christian was not elected :)
 *   I'd like some educators to be here.
 *   and no one from the deployments
 *   absolutely +1 from me
 *   No objection here.


 * _bernieXO has quit (Remote closed the connection)
 *   yeah, makes sense
 *   I especially favor deployment representatives.
 *   Could we resolve to make a formal outreach from the OB to each of these constituencies?
 *   i.e. "users". :)
 *   Perhaps in the form of committee heads?
 *   We do have the task of appointing committees...


 * bernieXO (n=urk@wireless-232.fi.muni.cz) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   The only one we agreed to in advance was membership
 *   sounds interesting, which would be those committees?
 *   Perhaps we should enumerate the committees and their purposes before we agree to head them. ;)
 *   deployment committee would make sense?


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 *   We have a first pass in the wiki: http://sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Governance/Committees
 *   We never had a deployment committee on the list. If we create one and appoint some folks from Peru and Uruguay to kick-start it...
 *   We can ask that they report back at each OB meeting...
 *   Same with Learning...
 *   +1 to a deployment committee.


 * dfarning (n=dfarning@72-160-221-202.dyn.centurytel.net) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *  3
 *   So I understand. The goal of the deployment committee would be to serve as ombudsman for deployments?
 *   We had 3-4 very strong candidates who'
 *   d make a great kernel of a deployment committee: Paulo, Rabi, Hernan, etc.
 *   More than just ombudsman, which is my mind is a more reactive role
 *  I'd like to get rabi or bryan involved if they want to
 *   Actively bringing issues to the board?
 *   I'd like to see them actively pursuing issues... and bring the important ones to our attention.


 * marcopg_ (n=marco@wireless-158.fi.muni.cz) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   Not just waiting for complaints...
 *   Right.
 *   So. Are we waiting on volunteers to chair committees?  :)
 *   We should not wait, but solicit. I'm happy to solicit members to the Deployment committee and ask them to help write up a mission statement.
 *   We need to appoint a OB member to each committee as well...
 *   Anyone want to tackle Membership?
 *   arjun may be able to bring some experience to the deployment committee
 *   Yeah. And maybe Carla?
 *   would be nice to have someone from africa, perhaps julaino knows someone?
 *   julaino
 *   juliano, sorry
 *   I know the folks involved in several of those trails as well. We need not settle on the details now, but I think we agree in spirit on what to do re Deployment?
 *   Distinctions between Deployment, Learning and Community might be made clearer. Deployment sounds like "user community" and "learning workers in the field".  Community (as currently framed) seems more like "Participation".
 *   The most actionable mission statements make the best committees. :)
 *   Deployment is clear: "to solicit feedback and prioritize improvements for Sugar deployments in the field" or something like that.
 *   Others, to me, are less clear.
 *   Learning in particular.
 *   I think the idea behind community committee was not so much the constituency as much as the task: they'd be all about organizing Sugar meetings
 *   e.g., BOF and tjhe like around the world
 *   Then let's call it the Events committee?
 *   Is there the need for a separate Learning committee? Perhaps not yet.
 *   Events works for me.


 * gregdek would be happy to work the Events committee.
 *   Having had some experience there.
 *   this actionable mission statement thing sounds good to me
 *   Quick: everyone else take one step back. Greg, it is yours!!
 *  :)
 *   Sorry I'm late, I will work on membership
 *   I WILL NOT FAIL YOU, SIR.
 *   Another glutton for punishment has spoken... great!
 *   It means I escape the harder committees. ;)
 *  I shall take infrastructure then
 *   So, as specific action items, could Greg, Dave, Bernie, (and whomever -- me?) come up with a short list of committee members and work with them on mission statements for our next meeting?
 *   I will.
 *   yes
 *   Shall we leave the learning committee aside for the time being?
 *   See what the other ones turn into?
 *   Until we can more explicitly describe its goals, I would say.
 *   What about driving the technical/design goals? Is that a committee?
 *   all committees are learning committees ;)
 *   An aside: it's "Sugar Labs", not "sugarlabs", right?
 *   Yes.
 *   But when we get to the logo discussion, we may consider sugarlabs
 *   back to committees, maybe Simon has an opinion about the need for a tech committee
 *  what's the actionable mission for tech?
 *   walter, you mean me?
 *   I'd like to propose that the OB formally sing Simon's praises for doing a great job as release manager.
 *   walter, would you consider leading the teaching committee, none of the rest of us are very qualified?
 *  walter: +1!
 *   yeah, let's sing!
 *  watch out your teeth!
 *   The setting of technical goals is something that needs coordinating, but maybe that is something that the Release Manager does...
 *   Or do we want to have a committee? That is what I was asking Simon.
 *   What would make it easier, more productive for you?
 *  we're largely understaffed in the tech team... this is maybe a topic to be discussed later
 *   I'm not sure if committees work on this one
 *   so the release manager is not setting the goals as i understand it
 *   he does make sure the goals that has been set get into the release
 *   developers interested in implementing a feature are in charge of driving the design discussion
 *  yeah I'm not sure we should a tech committee
 *   Or stay out for good reasons. :)
 *   Not setting... I misspoke... but making sure they are clearly articulated, so he/she can do his/her job
 *   in a more informal way, I think
 *  tomeu: i'd follow the old mantra of not touching what is not broken
 *   +1
 *   walter, ok
 *   yeah, perhaps that's what I had in my mind
 *   Let's leave it for now.
 *  the sugar hackers have been coordinating themselves impressively so far
 *   Very well coordinated... a pleasure to watch
 *   we are just too tired to fight for long...
 *   i can keep on doing what i did during this release if people were worried about that
 *   i can keep on doing what i did during this release if people were worried about that


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 *   If you are willing...
 *   sure
 *   I just want to make sure you have the tools you need.
 *   one critical thing we need is a bug squad
 *   that would really help in order to make the release process successful
 *   +1 to organizing a Test Committee.
 *   (Which is a really hard job, by the way.)
 *   Let's recruit Mikus
 *   mchua wanted to work on that?
 *  what about hoboprimate and garycmartin?
 *   i was thinking about hoboprimate and garycmatrtin
 *  they are both *very* good I think
 *   +2
 *   yeah
 *   We have some very good people.
 *   We need to give them a mandate and a means to be successful
 *   benzea and mtd may just keep sending patches as they feel better
 *   I missed bemasc, may be busy with other stuff
 *  yeah he is busy I think
 *  getting graduated or something
 *   ok so what action item does need to be fulfilled to get the bugsqad going
 *   and Charles Merriam?
 *   what do they need
 *   We need one of us to act as liaison/coordinator
 *   ok i can do that
 *   it does fit well with the release efforts ;p
 *   So we have membership, deployment, events, test set to take action on
 *   Distinctions between Deployment, Learning and Community might be made clearer. Deployment sounds like "user community" and "learning workers in the field".  Community (as currently framed) seems more like "Participation".
 *   sorry
 *   cjl: Replacing "community" in that list with "events".
 *   I think the blending of deployment/participation/learning is hard to tease apart at this stage
 *   Are we putting "learning" as a separate committee on hold for the moment?
 *   :Deployment == customer satisfaction:</business_hat>
 *   sorry, I repeated an earlier line by accident, what I meant to say was I assume Walter handles Finance for now?
 *   Let's talk about finance...
 * <bernieXO> oh yeah
 *   The bottom line is I think that the main focus for me in the next few months is $$$
 * <bernieXO> $$$
 *   what are we going to spend the money on?
 *   I am getting a number of proposals from folks, e.g., an interesting proposal to set up a development team in Pakistan.
 *   travel, what else?
 *   EVENTS.
 *   Over half of Fedora's discretionary spend goes to event funding.
 * <bernieXO> walter: that' _INTERESTING_
 *   walter: sounds interesting
 *   And helping get more developers going.
 *   as always, I'd like to talk about growing our devleopment resources
 *   Not Sugar Lab employees, but affilated groups that want to advance our mssion
 * <bernieXO> badly needed
 *   If we can raise money (or help others to raise money) to subsidize development, I think we should.
 *   walter: I know we are not fans of payed developers in sugarlabs, but I think that it could have a big strategic impact to contract someone for the next 6 months
 *   so we have a much better 0.84 release
 *   if 0.84 really rocks, we'll have an easier road next year
 *   I know this is a controversial issue, but we need the horses and the long-term interest of some of our partners, e.g., OLPC, is not development.
 *   Yes, I agree will walters last statement. In fact his main focus should be engaging statkeholders
 *   I think there are any number of groups that would be willing to help us help them.
 *   yes, I see countries and other organizations as the future of development resourcing
 * <bernieXO> yes, we should make sure Sugar Labs doesn't become the main source of developers, but sponsoring one or two for 6 months would be fine
 *   yeah, I'm advocating for something like a "strategic exception"
 *   I was looking into a plan, for example, for the WB to fund the development of SME tools based on Sugar that would advance their mission of fostering local entrepreneurship


 * dirakx (n=rafael@190.24.129.6) has joined #sugar-meeting
 *   supporting past releases is draining lots of development resources
 * <bernieXO> the Linux Foundation also sponsor a few "random" kernel hackers
 *   They have offered to help with Events...
 *   (Greg: we should talk about this offline)
 *   walter: Happy to.
 *   But we need more help in development sooner than later and unfortunately, outside of our control, some people are being pulled off the project...
 * <bernieXO> walter: who are the developers in this packistani team?
 *   or redirected to non-sugar stuff
 *   We'll need to have the resources to guarantee some level of stability
 *   in some cases, redirected, in some cases, contracts not renewed.
 *   But we could, for example, channel some of these resources to help build up some of the fledgling teams in places like Pakistan
 *   I wouldn't mind to spend some times on those places
 *   helping build the team
 *   but the recruiting job may be a hard one
 * <bernieXO> walter: you know I'd love to do it, don't you?
 *   we have two people in the travel committee ;)
 *   I think we an count on locals to find talent--we'll have to help bring them up to speed.
 * <bernieXO> walter: although I'm afraid I didn't have much luck hiring new sugar hackers in kathmandu...
 *   And I can work with these groups to find money to support them and the help.
 * <bernieXO> I think this is exactly what we'd need at this time
 *   As Bernie points out, there is not guaranteed to be critical mass of talent everywhere, but we need to start somewhere.
 *   I think Pakistan and India are good places to try.
 *   So I have been working on some joint proposals.
 *   What should be the process of vetting a proposal that commits Sugar Labs to something or asks for a Sugar Labs endorsement?
 * <bernieXO> but if we succed in creating a team outside USA/Europe, it would be doubly as worthwile
 *   walter: Discuss it in a board meeting and vote if need be?
 * <bernieXO> walter: good question...


 * gregdek is wary of creating process before it proves to be necessary...
 *   The other thing I have been working on is corporate money. I am meeting with Chuck next week to spend a day on a fundrasing roadmap/strategy
 *   I will have a few different proposals pulled together over the next few weeks. I'll circulate them to the OB, I suppose.
 * <marcopg_> approval by the board sounds good to me for endorsement
 *   after some discussion in the mailing lists, I guess
 *   There is an issue with public discussion of some proposals...
 *   Maybe I can generalize them--remove the names--for the mailing list discussion?
 *   I think the broad community can give input on broad strategy and policy
 * <bernieXO> sure
 *   I think the ideas can and should be public. But the details of whom and where are perhaps more sensitive?
 *   concrete proposals may be a different thing
 *   OK. will do.
 *   sure, that everybody can understand
 *   So, plan on a report from the finance committee at the next meeting.
 *   One more detail re committees and the like. OK to reappoint Bert as Ombudsman?
 *   yes
 *   if he's interested, yeah
 *   I think he is... but I'll confirm.
 *   I don't think it has been a burden to date, but I think it is good to have someone in that role.
 *   agreed
 *   Another bit of admisnitrivia: SFC
 * <bernieXO> have we been officially endorsed yet?
 *   Karen has been out much of the summer due to a medical issue so things have gone very very slowly.
 *   I am trying to get the final draft of the agreement for the board to sign.
 *   It is not in any significant way different from what we discussed in Milan, but...
 *   As soon as I get their sign off, we'll circulate it for your signatures.
 *   walter: do you anticipate any problem?
 *   (Originally, the acting board was going to sign it.)
 *   I don't there is a problem... just that Karen has been out.
 *   I spoke with them briefly yesterday and they seem to still be enthusiastic about out joining.
 *   ok, hope this goes forward
 * <bernieXO> cool
 *   Yes. I have been in limbo re fundraising because of it, for one.
 *   (and I thought the pope got rid of limbo at Vatican II)
 *   I'm willing to be point of contact to SFC so walter can move on to other issues
 *   sounds good, like OLPC has been doing with laptop.org
 *   sugarlabs.org ;p


 * gregdek wanders afk.
 * <bernieXO> how about the second server?
 *   I can tie the email address as a part of membership
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: +1
 * <bernieXO> or would we want to let people go and discuss it only with interested parties?
 *   will report next meeting
 *   and a t-shirt ;p
 *   would be now a good time (before we get seriously into 0.84) to migrate more stuff to sugarlabs machines?
 * <bernieXO> dfarning: ok thanks
 * <bernieXO> tomeu: the lists, at least
 *   well we need the machine up as far as i know to host git as well
 * <bernieXO> erikos: the second machine was going to host user shell accounts, secondary services, backups, and such
 * <bernieXO> for now, develer is still providing these things
 *   bernieXO, yup - we should make it a solid solution before announcing it
 *   bernieXO, but i am confident we will have the second machine soon ;p
 *   could someone update http://sugarlabs.org/go/InfrastructureTeam I have lost track
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: I don't think it's out of sync
 * <bernieXO> dfarning: can't do it quickly, my laptop just dropped dead
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: we just don't have all the services setup yet
 * <marcopg_> dfarning: and we are looking for a second box
 *   I just posed Christian's sketches: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DesignTeam/Logo-ideas#Christian.27s_take_on_this_theme
 *   BTW, AMD has offered us a box; just taking time to materialize
 * <marcopg_> I don't like the colors :)
 *   yeah, don't like the colors neither
 *   The colors can change... just like XO colors
 *   I like the orange we saw in Milan
 *   He is going to give me an SVG so we can play with the colors.
 * <marcopg_> +1 for the orange :)
 *   Logotype, eh?
 *   -1 to Christian!
 *   But what I like about it is that it is thematically related, but not another abstract icon
 *   I like the sucker.
 * <bernieXO> haha
 * <bernieXO> with the light bulb superimposed :)
 *   hmm, don't know if I didn't liked more the italian logos
 *   but the colors are important and can be changed, yeah
 *   I liked the logos Luca did for us, but I was never comfortable introducing yet another icon...
 *   there was still too much of a distance to associate it with Sugar Labs.
 *   I'm kidding. I really don't care.
 *   We need to be a bit more blatant with getting our name out there.
 *   The mark doesn't matter. It's the experience that the mark provides.
 * <cjb`> Hi all, sorry I'm so late. Catching up now.
 *   If we were as famous as Prince (or the artist formerly know as Prince) we could use an icon.
 *   It needs to look cool on schwag. There is an art to that.
 *   Or random Unicode codepoint...
 *   Maybe we could get some treatments of the logotype in common usage?


 * cjb` is now known as cjb
 *   walter: Very happy to hear about reaching out to educators/deployments -- my first thought on seeing the board was "wow, this is a lot of programmers" :)
 *   I really like: U0E5B ๛
 * <bernieXO> a key?
 *   Is our agenda mostly done, btw?
 *   It is a Thai character for end of chapter... but Sugar Labs is a beginning, not an end...
 *   I'd like to raise one more topic
 * <bernieXO> walter: so reverse it!
 *   I had a long conversation with a group in Toronto yesterday about accessibility
 *   They'd like Sugar Labs to participate in a proposal and it has far reach... into Linux/Gnome/and various deployments.


 * bernieXO has quit (Remote closed the connection)
 *   Not really much to discuss here, except to raise it as an issue to ask how we might recruit someone who could liaison between Sugar and the accessibility community
 *   They have some nice ideas and we have a great platform
 *   they are interested in our embedded efforts too, as they are interested in mobile accessibility
 *   Are they adding resources?
 *   In theory, yes.
 *   walter: might that be David Bolter's group?
 *   Then I'm all for it. :)
 *   This is Jutta's group at UT. I think David Bolter is involved.
 *   (He runs gok, which is GNOME's on-screen keyboard, and does a lot of behind the scenes accessibility stuff.)
 *   Cool.
 *   I am meeting their Brasilian partners next week...
 *   I think this is something we should follow/participate in.
 *   Apparently, accessibility is going to be part of the Brasil olpc bid.
 *   I've got a Fedora ambassador who is doing grad studies on OLPC and leads Fedora ambassadors in South America. Very motivated.  Should we throw him into that mix?
 *   Sure. I meet them next Thursday morning in Cambridge.
 *   Any one want to take the lead on this theme? Or should I develop it a bit further first?
 *   I'd kind of like to know more.
 *   No takers? OK.
 *   One final topic: next meeting date
 *   How about in two weeks?


 * NerdyNipple-f169 (n=urk@wireless-232.fi.muni.cz) has joined #sugar-meeting
 * NerdyNipple-f169 is now known as BernieXO
 *   Two weeks works for me.
 *   Same time, same channel?
 *   sounds good
 *   I'll post today's log/minutes in the wiki...
 *   yeah, good for me
 *   works great. I'll be on time for that one, sorry again.  Pesky developer's sleep schedule.
 *   thanks!
 *   OK. Thanks for participating today...
 * <marcopg_> thanks!
 *   one more small thing:
 *   sure
 *   how is the OB going to communicate between them outside the irc meetings?
 *   Bernie, can you make a list?
 * <BernieXO> cjb: hay man!
 * <BernieXO> walter: sure
 * <BernieXO> walter: overseers@lists.sugarlabs.org?
 *   but I think the private comm. will be minimal. Sugar and iaep seem to be the right forums for most things.
 *   walter on accessibility, there are some local folks possibly worth talking to http://ncam.wgbh.org/bp/index.html
 *   how about simply ob@
 *   clj: I'll check it out.


 * BernieXO likes c.scott's policy of forwarding all email he receives in private to the lists (unless REALLY confidential)
 * <BernieXO> walter: ok... or board@
 *   walter, mchua is also someone to drag into that issue.
 * <BernieXO> no, ob@ is better, we might have multiple boards
 *   walter: please see if you can get someone to 'wear the sugar accessibility hat'
 * <BernieXO> cjl: sure... she also vounteered to be a bug master some time ago...
 * <BernieXO> cjl: we should enroll her if she's still willing and available, once we have the bug tracker set up
 *   davidb: I'll find someone to be the champion...
 *   awesome
 *   She didn't really get to do the accessibility stuff she had planned for ILXO (as far as I know), it's an impt issue to her.
 *   I'll look into accessibility this week, might need to pass it off next meeting
 *   So, meeting adjourned?