View source for Oversight Board/2008/Log-2008-10-17

:'''<walter>''' I submitted the DML application. I am not sure when we hear back on that one. It is relatively general in that I ask for support for development, infrastructure, and outreach.
:'''<walter>''' I also submitted a proposal to Google 10^100.
:'''<walter>''' It is a very terse proposal, mostly outlining our goals and the need to support community efforts.
* marcopg (n=marco@94.160.139.226) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<walter>''' I have two different Knight foundation proposals in the works: (1) a focus on bringing Sugar into a community network as opposed to school network environment--to foster Sugar-like collaboration on community projects; and (2) Sugar for the elderly, with a focus on accessibility and collaboration.
:'''<tomeu>''' we fit quite well on g 10^100, I think
:'''<walter>''' These are due at the end of the month... I'll send drafts out soon.
:'''<marcopg>''' can we make two proposals? or we have to choose one?
:'''<dfarning>''' One of the reasons for going with google as email is to start escalating our relationship. email ->''' jabber server ->''' funding
:'''<marcopg>''' (Simon can't make today meeting btw)
:'''<walter>''' And I am working with Caroline Meeks on a grant to implement Sugar on a stick: USB deployments in schools. That proposal is due on Tuesday. Lots of work to do on that one, but it is coming together nicely. We visit a pilot school this afternoon.
:'''<tomeu>''' sugar-on-stick and ltsp are quite interesting
:'''<walter>''' We can do as many Knight grants as we want, but I am going to talk (chat) with someone from the foundation on Monday to ask what the best approach would be in terms of their needs and expectations.
:'''<tomeu>''' because are somewhat decoupled form the hw investment
:'''<walter>''' In terms of LTSP, there are several commercial companies exploring thin-client solutions of Sugar.
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: can you elaborate on that?
:'''<dfarning>''' ltsp is blocked pending a 'jabber server in a box'
* dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone
:'''<walter>''' The group in New Hampshire that David and I have been talking with. A group in the UK. And maybe it is time to talk to the ncomputer people, but it should be someone other than me who engages them, as I have a history with their CEO.
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: I see, and what has gmail got to do with that?
:'''<dfarning>''' tomeu, once we have a relationship start it is easer to increase,  I would like them to star hosting a jabber network for us:)
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: I'm impressed by how they call media's attention
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: google? would be awesome
:'''<walter>''' I had some interest at Google in helping with the Jabber stuff from a while ago. I could try to dig up those contacts again.
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: do you think we could get the extensions we need?

:'''<marcopg>''' right, the extensions are going to be tricky I guess
:'''<dfarning>''' I think that it is worth my time to pursue
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: what about packaging the XS stuff inside the ltsp server itself?
:'''<walter>''' From the conversations I have been having, the issues go a bit deeper than just the XS stuff.
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: you mean technical issues with the ltsp deployments?
:'''<walter>''' I hope to see C. Scott in Lima to talk to him about some of these things, because they impact the Journal as well.
:'''<walter>''' Schools need to think about moving data into and out of the Sugar environment.
:'''<dfarning>''' none of the movers and shakers in the ltsp community are interested in looking until we have a good jabber server that works out of the box in fedora
:'''<marcopg>''' yeah
:'''<walter>''' And they are interested in capturing student data over the long term--portfolio assessment.
:'''<marcopg>''' we really need to get there
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: then scott is your man, yeah
:'''<marcopg>''' perhaps morgs can help with it
:'''<marcopg>''' I'm not really sure of the status there
:'''<marcopg>''' and of the future plans
:'''<marcopg>''' I suspect we will always need some extension
:'''<dfarning>''' we are killing morgs already ->''' he is the prime drive at ubuntu
:'''<walter>''' So we need to think about the relationship between Sugar journal data, XS backups, and import/export, not just to external storage, but in terms of legacy systems. This is more important than using the file system as per Scott's demo.
:'''<walter>''' We will learn a lot from the thin client guys--they have been wrestling with these issues.
:'''<walter>''' Bernie and I will see them on the 1st in New Hampshire.
:'''<morgs>''' dfarning: I've been helping nubae get working on LTSP on intrepid...
:'''<walter>''' But this is slightly off topic.
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: then let's bug Robot101 about it :)
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: the XS already displays backups in the web server, isn't it already quite a bit in terms of interoperability in ltsp environments?
:'''<dfarning>''' nice!  I would like to catch up on your progress
:'''<tomeu>''' yes, we are getting technical now
:'''<tomeu>''' we could discuss this stuff in the developer meetings?
:'''<marcopg>''' make sense
:'''<tomeu>''' we also do ad-hoc meetings when someone brings up an interesting subject like cerebro, a new journal, etc
:'''<walter>''' Let me report back after Nov 1 on the needs requirements. I think we are close, but slightly off target.
:'''<tomeu>''' cool, I see there some future
:'''<dfarning>''' tomue, agree ->''' action item. engage ltsp communtiy:)
:'''<tomeu>''' I think both RH and Ubuntu are interested in the ltsp educational market
:'''<walter>''' Back to finances, I am going to explore some collaborations when I am in Balzano next month.
:'''<tomeu>''' they could give some resources further down the road
:'''<walter>''' Also, I am still pursuing the USAID grant with Pakistan and had a fruitful conversation with a team from Gao yesterday about additional local Sugar Lab efforts.
:'''<dfarning>''' I am lookin into on ubuntu edeveloper hire
:'''<walter>''' There may be interest by some Indian computer manufacturers that we'll try to leverage as well.
:'''<marcopg>''' hire as in having ubuntu to devote a dev to sugar?
:'''<tomeu>''' wow, lots of opportunities ;)
:'''<dfarning>''' yes, several months away i think:(
:'''<walter>''' I haven't made as much progress on the industry-support front. The economy isn't helping--thank you Mr. Bush.
:'''<tomeu>''' yeah, bad timing :/
:'''<marcopg>''' heh yeah that sucks
:'''<morgs>''' edubuntu is ubuntu's educational project with LTSP - but the core developer (ogra) has moved to the Ubuntu mobile team and edubuntu's pretty stalled at the moment
:'''<marcopg>''' we couldn't have choosed a worst time I guess ;)
:'''<walter>''' I still have a few potential quick infusions of cash I am pursing that could help with bringing people to events.
:'''<dfarning>''' No, we have a great time. Govt are going to being looking in to cuting costs!
:'''<tomeu>''' nice, we may need to start talking about how to get the most out of those events
:'''<walter>''' The good news is we have a very efficient organization in terms of cash flow :)
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: ;)
:'''<tomeu>''' heh
:'''<walter>''' We have no costs to cut :)
:'''<marcopg>''' hehe
:'''<dfarning>''' we just need to give them a reason to chose linux over windows ->''' sugar can be that (emotional) reason
:'''<tomeu>''' yeah, we need to get money soon, so we can waste it and then start cutting costs
:'''<dfarning>''' we just need to give them a reason to chose linux over windows ->''' sugar can be that (emotional) reason
:'''<tomeu>''' yeah, we need to get money soon, so we can waste it and then start cutting costs
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: yeah, I think politicians may appreciate sugar's educational focus
:'''<walter>''' So that is all I have to report re finances.
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: instead of going with a std linux desktop or with windows
:'''<walter>''' I have a brief SFC report: Karen still need one more signature--she didn't say who.
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: after that, will be already done?
:'''<marcopg>''' heh so we don't who to blame...
:'''<tomeu>''' s/will/we'll
:'''<dfarning>''' move entire school districts to linux ->''' used sugar where are appropriate
:'''<marcopg>''' don't know
:'''<walter>''' That concludes my agenda items (except to talk about deployment later).
:'''<walter>''' Karen said that we can start working on the real issues now. David, I suggest we schedule an IRC meeting to discuss the membership issues ASAP.
:'''<walter>''' (I'll be in Peru all of next week, so IRC is my main channel.)
:'''<walter>''' One other thing:
:'''<walter>''' I applied for us to be listed on the fsf.org site. Hasn't happened yet--not sure why.
:'''<dfarning>''' sounds good, that is a blocker.  Companies are reluctant to become involved until governence is in place
:'''<walter>''' (And we should ask Karen to get us listed on SFC)
:'''<dfarning>''' is Walter officially our ED yet?
:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning: I guess all board members should vote?
:'''<walter>''' And one other little thing: I got my Sugar Labs moo cards. They are really fun. I suggest everyone make them.
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: do you have a link to the design?
:'''<walter>''' I can provide art work if you'd like.
:'''<marcopg>''' you haven't posted links to them!
:'''<walter>''' I'll do it today.
:'''<dfarning>''' do we have quorum?
:'''<walter>''' Christian's design is perfect for their form-factor.
:'''<tomeu>''' we miss _bernie, gregdek and cjb
:'''<walter>''' four out of seven, but I should probably recuse myself.
:'''<walter>''' But in any case, let's switch to David's agenda.
:'''<tomeu>''' we can probably do it in the ml
:'''<marcopg>''' yeah it's better to get everyone vote I tihnk
:'''<walter>''' +1
:'''<dfarning>''' Ok, I'll figure out how to vote via mail later today
:'''<marcopg>''' I think the outcome is obvious but just to make things right :)
:'''<tomeu>''' yup
:'''<dfarning>''' marcopg, exactly
:'''<dfarning>''' good habits are hard to develop, bad habits are hard to break!
:'''<dfarning>''' i guess member ship is done
:'''<tomeu>''' I would like to have a talk with greg about how we could do the best use out of FOSS conferences
:'''<tomeu>''' perhaps on next meeting
:'''<tomeu>''' or I could ask him on the ml...
:'''<walter>''' I think the event stuff he is doing is a good step, but it is a lot of overhead for posting in the wiki.
:'''<walter>''' BTW, I am going to LCA--I have a Sugar talk accepted. We should leverage that event.
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: you mean updating the wiki page is too much work?
:'''<dfarning>''' walter, greg is used to working at the rh fedora scale
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: what's the title of your talk?
:'''<walter>''' Maybe if there is a template... but there is lots of replication of effort--multiple pages to create, etc.
:'''<tomeu>''' yeah?
:'''<tomeu>''' for the brno fudcon, they had this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBrno2008
:'''<tomeu>''' is quite informal, but seemed to do the job
:'''<walter>''' my talk is just: "The Sugar learning platform" -- plenty of flexibility.
:'''<walter>''' We'll be hosting the Boston fudcon at MIT.
:'''<dfarning>''' do we have dates yet?
:'''<walter>''' I think 9-11 January
:'''<marcopg>''' I'll be giving a talk at linuxday in Milan
:'''<marcopg>''' the 25 or something
:'''<tomeu>''' oct?
:'''<marcopg>''' didn't add it to the wiki, though
:'''<marcopg>''' yeah
:'''<walter>''' Anything else re events? (A bunch of us are going to be a FOSS conference in Lima; plus the translation sprint)
:'''<marcopg>''' olpc planning meeting is not yet clearly planned
:'''<marcopg>''' but maybe we should let it be just that
:'''<walter>''' Yeah. As I said, I had a good meeting with Ed. I have been adding a few items to the wiki page they set up.
:'''<marcopg>''' I'm not sure a co-hosted meeting really helps, might be just confusing
:'''<dfarning>''' is there place on the wiki to post slides for talks
:'''<marcopg>''' I still would like to see a talk to Sugar labs
:'''<walter>''' There is a place in the laptop.org wiki.
:'''<marcopg>''' if I'm not coming perhaps walter should give it :)
:'''<walter>''' I see this as an OLPC meeting, not a Sugar Labs meeting.
:'''<marcopg>''' I agree
:'''<walter>''' I am not there until the end, since I will be in Europe.
:'''<marcopg>''' but a talk about Sugar Labs in an OLPC meeting make sense to me
:'''<marcopg>''' to improve communication/workflow with them
:'''<marcopg>''' aah
:'''<walter>''' I still don't understand C. Scott's comment about "us vs. them"
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: last week scott and michael shared some concerns about SL
:'''<walter>''' I asked him who us and them were, but he never responded.
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: from their words, clearly don't feel part of SL
:'''<marcopg>''' I'm not sure everyone understood what SL is about
:'''<walter>''' I discussed some of that with Ed and hope to discuss it further with Scott in Lima.
:'''<marcopg>''' I think they are seeing it more like a company
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: would be nice to discuss how the rest of the OLPC can feel empowered to make SL what they truly need
:'''<walter>''' I think Ed sees it right. And Chuck. And CJB.
:'''<marcopg>''' something external which they feel is giving more issues then benefits atm
:'''<marcopg>''' that's good
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: will be good that you see what we can do so that Scott feels like a full member of SL
:'''<marcopg>''' maybe cscott was just frustrated by me and tomeu saying bad things about olpc :)
:'''<marcopg>''' and he fighted back that way
:'''<tomeu>''' marcopg: oh, I actually expected he would agree with most of that
:'''<walter>''' We'll work it out...
:'''<dfarning>''' We just need to give it time. once we prove our worth things will work out
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: nice
:'''<walter>''' I'll grab him for a beer and some fried chicken and he can unleash his opinions.
:'''<walter>''' good fried chicken in Lima.
:'''<marcopg>''' good plan ;)
:'''<walter>''' Any suggestions re the translation sprint next week? 
:'''<marcopg>''' maybe unmadindu have some :)
:'''<unmadindu>''' link ?
:'''<unmadindu>''' oh ok
:'''<tomeu>''' walter: there seems to not be yet critical mass behind the aymara efforts?
:'''<unmadindu>''' only Spanish translations, or Aymara/Quecha ones as well ?
:'''<walter>''' We'll see who shows up in Lima
:'''<tomeu>''' they had already one translation jam
:'''<tomeu>''' made progresses, but looks like quechua/aymara is hard because of the new vocabulary that needs to be agreed upon
:'''<walter>''' This is more focused on the FLOSSmaunels.
:'''<tomeu>''' oh,  see
:'''<unmadindu>''' ah, ok
:'''<tomeu>''' so there's only the spanish translation effort, currently
:'''<walter>''' But we could expand it to Sugar too, if there is a critical mass.
:'''<marcopg>''' looks like we are missing just bugsquad and infrastructure from the agenda
:'''<marcopg>''' I don't think we have much to say about bugsquad
:'''<walter>''' w/o SImon and Bernie...
:'''<marcopg>''' depends on infrastructure
:'''<marcopg>''' and on sorting out things with olpc
:'''<dfarning>''' the french olpc team is planing a translation in a few weeks
:'''<marcopg>''' I think Bernie is working on setting up trac on sl.org
:'''<walter>''' I may see them on my way to Balzano (via Dusseldorf)
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: did we make progress with OSL? still planning to go down that way?
:'''<walter>''' And I need to ping AMD again!!
* dwmw2_gone is now known as dwmw2
:'''<dfarning>''' I'll ask bernie to send a update to the list
:'''<marcopg>''' AMD is lazy ;)
:'''<tomeu>''' amd's network may drop icmp packets ;)
:'''<walter>''' They did send me a proto-laptop to explore.
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: oh, he is working with them?
:'''<dfarning>''' I think he is happy with our discussion so far
:'''<marcopg>''' let's hope they don't send a proto-server ;)
:'''<dfarning>''' yes, they are currently setting up a machine for us
:'''<walter>''' great.
:'''<marcopg>''' cool!
:'''<walter>''' I am all for handing this stuff off to them.
:'''<marcopg>''' re trac and relation with olpc
:'''<marcopg>''' I think we need our trac for at very least opening all the issue we are discovering with the other distro guys
:'''<marcopg>''' if we send them to the olpc trac
:'''<marcopg>''' we will just confuse everyone
:'''<dfarning>''' ols with help set up an maintain trac and get for us
:'''<marcopg>''' (I'm using wiki pages with Caroline for now, but that really sucks)
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: cool
:'''<dfarning>''' apparently trac has a steep learning curve from the admin side
:'''<tomeu>''' sorry, off-topic, but have you seen the last occurrence of sugar-influence on the FOSS world? http://linux.conf.au/programme/schedule/view_talk/29?day=thursday
:'''<marcopg>''' I'm trying to setup a little of release infrastructure
:'''<tomeu>''' the bit about "View source"
:'''<marcopg>''' do we already know where we will be able to give ssh out to developers?
:'''<marcopg>''' is that still the AMD server?
:'''<dfarning>''' I hadn't gotten that far yet
:'''<walter>''' tomeu: Hurrah for View Source!!
:'''<marcopg>''' tomeu: and the journal and...
:'''<marcopg>''' the ideas are proliferating if nothing else ;)
:'''<tomeu>''' ;)
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: I guessed :)
:'''<walter>''' marcopg: yeah. I haven't been reporting my Ubuntu bugs...
:'''<marcopg>''' basically I need to figure out where to host releases, and setup automated scripts to make them etc
:'''<marcopg>''' that's important for distributions to be able to package our stuff
:'''<marcopg>''' and ssh access is the easiest way to do it
:'''<dfarning>''' probably better not to host dev account at osl though,  They have asked us to self host our build farm, download farm, and other non standard suff
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: right
:'''<marcopg>''' and Ivan doesn't seem to be happy to give ssh on his box either
:'''<marcopg>''' that's why I was thinking to the AMD box
:'''<walter>''' OK. I'll push to get the AMD box...
:'''<marcopg>''' :)
:'''<dfarning>''' marcopg, best plan is to work things out with needs with bernie, while keeping me in the loop. then I can go out and find what you need.
:'''<marcopg>''' I guess with Bernie in Boston should be easy to set it up, once we get it
:'''<marcopg>''' dfarning: yup, will make sure to coordinate with him
:'''<dfarning>''' 'things you need'
:'''<walter>''' I just pinged AMD again...
:'''<walter>''' Anything else for today?
:'''<tomeu>''' hmm
:'''<tomeu>''' I'm good
:'''<walter>''' I'll write up minutes.
* andresambrois is now known as aa
:'''<dfarning>''' I am good also
:'''<walter>''' (Do we need to formally approve the previous meeting's minutes each time?)
:'''<tomeu>''' don't think so, people can comment afterwards, complete, etc
:'''<walter>''' I post the entire transcript too, so I suppose my summaries can be verified.
:'''<dfarning>''' I will look into it
:'''<walter>''' OK.
:'''<walter>''' So I'll be in touch from Lima next week.
:'''<walter>''' chau
:'''<dfarning>''' goodbye
:'''<walter>''' and to Marco, ciao
:'''<marcopg>''' thanks, bye
:'''<marcopg>''' hehe
:'''<marcopg>''' ciao ;)