Talk:Sugar on a Stick

Sugar on a Stick/FAQ

See Sugar on a Stick/FAQ and Talk:Sugar on a Stick/FAQ. For older versions of this page, see /Archive.

There's a lot going on in this thread; here is my attempt to summarize discussions so far. If I've missed or misstated anything, please correct me. Last updated by Mchua 04:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

What are we talking about?

Part of the ongoing discussion is meant to clarify and answer the question "What is SoaS?" The other part of the discussion is exploring "where SoaS could go in the future," for various definitions of "SoaS." (Proposed Next Steps)

What is SoaS?

SoaS is a Linux-based, Sugar-running, delivered-on-a-thumbdrive distribution focused on customizability, deployability, and local support, and meant for 1-to-1 use in schools.

The term is currently a trademark owned by SL and used to refer colloquially to several things:

the code, based on Fedora, that Sebastian has been working on (...for lack of a better descriptor)
any bootable thumbdrive running Sugar on top, whether based on Ubuntu or Fedora or Debian or $DISTRO.
"the physical product SL is marketing to end-users right now"

Proposed next steps

Formalize what SL project status means for SoaS spins

SoaS development and Sugar platform development are two separate projects done by different groups; one for Sugar platform development and one for each SoaS spin. There is currently only one active SoaS spin, and it is the Fedora-based project being driven by Sebastian Dziallas, for a current grand total of 2 project groups; however, there may be other SoaS spins in the future.

Exactly what it means to be a SL project is still an open question.

What are the criteria a SL project must meet (including requirements for ongoing engagement/contribution)?
How does something become a SL project?
1. Who determines whether a project meets these criteria?
2. How do they make that determination?
3. Is there a schedule and/or timeline for this determination?
4. How does someone initiate the process for requesting SL project status, and who can do so?
5. What happens if it is determined that a project does not meet these criteria?
How does a SL project become not a SL project, and for what reasons might this happen?
What benefits (mailing list, etc.) does a SL project get?
How can all of the above answers be amended if needed in the future?
What is the list of current projects that we are considering including in the initial "this is a SL project" approval round, and what do these projects have to do in order to be approved for the criteria?

Who decides: These decisions need to ultimately be ratified by SLOBs. It's been suggested that Sebastian's Fedora-based SoaS spin be the test case for the first "SL project," so it makes sense to start out on the SoaS mailing list to come up with a set of proposed answers to these questions that will work for the projects themselves, then ask SLOBs to formalize them (with more discussion/modification if need be).

Determine what "Sugar on a Stick" refers to

Options:

1. SoaS is a generic name usable by anyone who produces a thumbdrive-bootable Sugar, regardless of what distro, etc. that image may be based on. Since SL owns the SoaS trademark, there may be an application and approval process for projects that want to use the trademark/name, but there would be multiple "$DISTRO Sugar Spin", "$DISTRO Sugar Remix", "Sugar on $DISTRO", etc. projects.

2. SoaS is a "marketing name" used by SL as a pointer to the thumbdrive-bootable version of Sugar that SL wishes to promote at any given time. So for one press release, SL may go point to SUSE-SoaS and say "Everyone, this is SoaS!" and the next time point to Mandriva-SoaS and say "Everyone, this is SoaS!" (Note that options #1 and #2 are compatible.)

3. SoaS is a product name that refers specifically to the Fedora-based code Sebastian is working on.

Who decides: A decision panel convened by the SLOBs (the latter is happening now), with strong input from both the current "SoaS" team and the Marketing team. See this mailing list thread calling for discussion panel volunteers.

Generate a list of SoaS spins

(I'm using the word "spins" because it seems to work - feel free to suggest and use a different one if you've got an alternative.)

We need a directory of SoaS spins so that developers interested in liveusb Sugar efforts can see which ones are currently ongoing. Developers can call their project whatever they want, so long as it does not interfere with the usage SL decides on for the term "SoaS" (in other words, a SoaS spin can't have the name "SoaS," though it can use the word "SoaS" in conjunction with some other term).

Current spins:

Sebastian Dziallas is calling the coming iteration of the project he is working on Sugar on a Stick, Blueberry [1]; the name of the overall project is not known. needs a name
Other spins?

(See Side Notes below)

This list will also have to be moved to its own (non-talk) page eventually. (If you'd like to volunteer to make that move, just go ahead and do it and announce it to the soas list and we'll be very grateful!)

Completed next steps

Make a SoaS mailing list

The list was created at http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/soas after reaching consensus on the ticket requesting that the list be created, http://dev.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1419.

From the list description: "This list is intended for discussions related to the development of Sugar on a Stick, which is located in the Sugar Labs wiki. User feedback can also be directed to feedback@sugarlabs.org and the IAEP (It's An Education Project) mailing list. Upstream development and discussions of Sugar take place in the sugar-devel mailing list. Other LiveUSB Sugar projects are invited and very welcome to share their concepts, ideas and thoughts on-list, too." Also see the log from the informal IRC discussion about mailing list creation for more context.

Side questions

Determine whether SoaS is a SL-endorsed way of distributing Sugar

The consensus here seems to be that yes, SL should endorse some form or forms of distribution of Sugar on a thumbdrive using the name "Sugar on a Stick." The mission of SL is to "produce, distribute, and support" Sugar, and SoaS gives SL an easy, concrete way to demo, deploy, and therefore distribute Sugar.

Determine whether SoaS is the SL-endorsed way of distributing Sugar

Whether SoaS should be *the* SL-endorsed way of distributing Sugar is another question. Is SoaS the way that SL distributes Sugar directly to learners?

Support:

Marketing-wise, this would be a key tool in creating widespread awareness of Sugar and having that awareness all point to a single cohesive effort.
Since Sugar is free software, this does not preclude other distribution methods from being created and promoted independent of formal endorsement from SL.

Concerns:

Thumbdrives are not the answer for everyone; for instance, LTSP-like compatibility may make more sense in some situations. We should not lock ourselves into a single distribution method.

Who decides: This seems to be dependent on two other decisions:

The decision on what "SoaS" refers to (which is within the scope of this discussion)
The decision on "whether SL wants to produce an end-user product" (which had several pros and cons mentioned during the thread, but is probably outside the scope of this discussion)

Both decisions would be made by SLOBs or a decision panel convened by the SLOBs. This issue is a peripheral one that isn't particularly within the scope of the current SoaS discussions in this thread, though.

Side notes

SJ Klein: "I would find it a refreshing counterpoint to have a group in this ecosystem focused on maintaining a toolchain that first prioritizes the overall teacher and classroom experience, and second prioritizes hardware, OS, and software details. Some of its core releases / components / packages (for instance, a new social & procedural system for getting help or processing feedback) might not involve a single transistor or line of code."

Feedback from a first grade teacher: What teachers care about: (1) Is it friendly? (2) Is it consistent? (3) Can the effort needed to maintain it be sustained? What they don't care about: (1) What group "runs" it? (2) Who owns the trademark? (3) What bleeding-edge features are being developed now for a future release? (3) What is the underlying technology? What would reassure them: (1) Peer support. (2) Seeing it in action, so they can create a "mental paradigm" category for something like Sugar/SoaS.

Added Notes:(Tom Gilliard 9/21/2009) "satellit"

1.) F12 and opensuse-edu now distribute a dual mode live.iso of Sugar-Desktop which boots into sugar as a CD or can be used to dd write to a USB/SD "stick". (persistence is a work in progress on these)[[2]] [[3]][[4]][[5]]

2.) Sugar from multiple distros is available as a VMPlayer or Virtualbox "Appliance" which can be stored on a USB/SD "Stick" and thus is transportable with (persistence) from PC to PC.

3.) There are "full installs"(real file structure-not a live system) of: Sugar, Sugar+Gnome, Sugar+KDE on larger(4GB+) USB Sticks which are available for download in compressed form that can be written to a bootable USB/SD with a dd command in several minutes.

Are these also Soas? Or something different and does it matter that much, as long as they are allowing wider distribution and use of SUGAR?