Oversight Board/2010/Meeting Log-2010-05-14

#startmeeting

<meeting> Meeting started at 11:10 UTC. The chair is walterbender.

Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK

<walterbender> #TOPIC Trademark

Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions.

I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks.

<SeanDaly> we'll need to follow up

<walterbender> Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros?

<cjb> no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet

• walterbender heard that bernie may join us

<walterbender> cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora

<SeanDaly> I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives

<walterbender> In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone.

We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy.

<walterbender> there may be others I don't recall.

hi bernie

• SeanDaly greets bernie

<walterbender> #action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting

Shall we move on to the main topic?

<SeanDaly> walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond

<bernie__> @*#! damn the university is firewalled

[INFO] 2 matches for “bernie”: [bernie, bernie__]

• bernie__ is using a web chat

<SeanDaly> aside from label program

<walterbender> bernie__: tor is your friend :)

• mchua_afk apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog

--> $dayjob_unexpectedness

<walterbender> SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,.

hi mel

#topic vacancies

<CanoeBerry> walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review?

<SeanDaly> walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit)

<walterbender> SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :)

<SeanDaly> :D

<cjb> CanoeBerry: I think it's this one: http://activitycentral.org/

<walterbender> SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday.

<SeanDaly> haven't heard back from gnomies yet though

<cjb> at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change

<SeanDaly> but OLPC-A is reviewing

<walterbender> cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :)

<SeanDaly> cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar

<cjb> SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean? I'm talking about dfarning's site

unless dfarning is also making a press release

<SeanDaly> cjb: no sorry I'm confused

<cjb> np

I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development

<SeanDaly> I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there

<cjb> yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :)

<walterbender> cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting.

<SeanDaly> a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large....

<cjb> walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities

<walterbender> AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities...

<SeanDaly> walterbender: he means competition for ASLO

<cjb> but I can't think of any other friction

<walterbender> I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen

seems like a win for us

<bernie__> my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all.

<cjb> I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site.

<walterbender> But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate.

<bernie__> DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team

<cjb> sure :)

<SeanDaly> if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him

<walterbender> Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss.

related to developer resources

<bernie__> the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/

<walterbender> we have a specific issue and a meta topic...

<bernie__> +1 for moving on

<walterbender> the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions

the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies

and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with

the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90

(We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.)

<SeanDaly> it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead

<bernie__> I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success.

<CanoeBerry> aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com

<walterbender> bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2)

<bernie__> CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-(

<rgs_> (can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?)

<CanoeBerry> bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts..

<bernie__> rgs_: yes

rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-)

<rgs_> what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture

<bernie__> CanoeBerry: dunno...

<walterbender> another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck.

<cjb> rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input

<walterbender> rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments.

<bernie__> walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-(

<SeanDaly> a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart

<walterbender> rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions.

SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him.

<rgs_> I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users)

<cjb> rgs_: cool!

<SeanDaly> rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us

<walterbender> rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments...

<rgs_> walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p

<cjb> rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said

<walterbender> someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users.

<rgs_> k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever!

<cjb> yeah

<bernie__> rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair.

<rgs_> (that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task)

<cjb> it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :)

<walterbender> well maybe have a solution of (1) :)

<cjb> rgs_: you get my vote

<SeanDaly> rgs_: i'm in awe

<walterbender> cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers...

rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :)

<rgs_> translation bots are a commodity nowadays :)

• bernie__ is biased (rgs is my boss)

<rgs_> walterbender: probably yes :)

walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL

<bernie__> I guess I should abstain from voting on this

<walterbender> rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting.

<rgs_> and wants to cooperate in any possible way

<cjb> bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote

<walterbender> this raises one of the meta issues...

<bernie__> thanks

<rgs_> so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours

<walterbender> I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules).

but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input.

<bernie__> the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast.

<walterbender> I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas

In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community

<bernie__> walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1

walterbender: same for silbe

walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already)

<walterbender> and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes.

<cjb> sounds good

<CanoeBerry> rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed!

bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :)

<walterbender> CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :)

<bernie__> walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar

<walterbender> bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position...

It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project.

<cjb> walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps?

<bernie__> cjb: +1

<SeanDaly> cjb: you mean if more than one candidate?

<bernie__> cjb: but we have to be fast

<cjb> SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :)

<walterbender> cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great

<bernie__> cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development

<cjb> walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans

<bernie__> cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months

<cjb> so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable

bernie__: two-week election, perhaps?

<SeanDaly> here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting

<bernie__> I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week.

<cjb> bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :)

<SeanDaly> the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites

<bernie__> cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks

<SeanDaly> we could consider advertising for talent

<cjb> bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think

SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide

a

<walterbender> SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles.

<bernie__> cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho

cjb: review != ack

<cjb> SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates?

bernie__: *nod*

<walterbender> seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election.

<SeanDaly> ok

<cjb> I'm happy to run the election

if that helps

although I haven't set up selectricity before

<walterbender> cjb: +1

<cjb> I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him

<CanoeBerry> how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously..

<cjb> CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting?

<walterbender> cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :)

<CanoeBerry> how about 10+10 days?

<cjb> walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member

CanoeBerry: sure, good idea

<walterbender> cjb: we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee

<cjb> ah hah

<walterbender> cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall

<cjb> excellent

I'll mail him

<cjb> shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback?

<walterbender> #action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead.

<CanoeBerry> CJB needs a pretty dress too.

Sorry ;)

<walterbender> cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording

So, what about Release Manager?

I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized.

He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90

This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule.

<CanoeBerry> Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;)

<walterbender> Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility.

I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up...

<CanoeBerry> Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues..

<walterbender> In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback.

?

• bernie is back

<CanoeBerry> Time Check?

<SeanDaly> lunchtime? tea time?

<bernie> so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead?

<walterbender> we need to end...

<bernie> cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please?

<walterbender> any further ideas re RM?

<cjb> bernie: yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time.

(that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.)

<bernie> cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream.

alsroot: maybe you could do it?

because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry.

<walterbender> bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead

and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM?

any other ideas?

<CanoeBerry> great ideas.

pretty dress was not entirely a joke.

honoring our roles, making them attractive..

<walterbender> speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead...

maybe that should be a motion

<cjb> hear hear :)

<CanoeBerry> YES

<SeanDaly> hark

<bernie> walterbender: +1

<walterbender> They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities.

<walterbender> so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities

shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then.

<CanoeBerry> the primaries at least!

• dogi waves ...

<CanoeBerry> dogi: you around tonight at the party etc?

<rgs_> walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team

<alsroot> bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear

<bernie> walterbender: +1

<walterbender> rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours

alsroot: I agree

<rgs_> walterbender: great

• rgs_ ---> Caacupe

<walterbender> ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today.

thanks everyone.

#endmeeting

<meeting> Meeting finished at 12:16.

Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.log.20100514_1110.html