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Deployment Team/Meetings/2008-09-10/Log (view source)
Revision as of 11:39, 10 September 2008
, 11:39, 10 September 2008New page: * Now talking on #sugar-meeting * Topic for #sugar-meeting is: The meeting channel for the sugar developers (sugarlabs.org) | see also #sugar | meeting time: thursdays 14.00 UTC * Topic fo...
* Now talking on #sugar-meeting
* Topic for #sugar-meeting is: The meeting channel for the sugar developers (sugarlabs.org) | see also #sugar | meeting time: thursdays 14.00 UTC
* Topic for #sugar-meeting set by morgs at Thu Aug 14 07:37:18 2008
* #sugar-meeting :[freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* kimquirk (n=kimquirk@wireless-88.media.mit.edu) has joined #sugar-meeting
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:'''<walter>''' people are starting to arrive
:'''<dirakx>''' hello walter >'''(
:'''<dirakx>''' :)
:'''<dirakx>''' and everyone..;-)
:'''<walter>''' I had put together a tentative agenda in the wiki... http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam#Agenda_.282008-09-10.29
:'''<walter>''' A few people have added things.
* befana (n=befana@190.158.108.227) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<walter>''' It is great to have some OLPC folks here as well.
:'''<dirakx>''' im editing it atm. also..
:'''<walter>''' Rafael, did you hear back from any one on OLPC-sur about attending?
:'''<cjb>''' Morning all.
:'''<tomeu>''' hi all, I'm lurking
:'''<walter>''' Hi Chris, Tomeu
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: some people but i havent seen one of them here right now
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:'''<monyu>''' Walter: Befana is here
:'''<walter>''' I was hoping a few folks from Peru would be joining us as well
:'''<befana>''' hi all
:'''<walter>''' I don't think everyone knows everyone here... maybe quick introductions?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: here he have people form colombia though ..monyu and befana have work with pilots in bogota
:'''<dirakx>''' yep...why not...
:'''<dirakx>''' im rafael ortiz from colombia
:'''<walter>''' I can begin: I'm walter bender and I have been tasked by the Sugar Labs board to get the ball rolling on deployment needs
:'''<dirakx>''' and i-m hoping to help in the deployment team.
:'''<walter>''' We want to be supportive of any needs in the field and also build lines of communication to the development community
* edmcnierney_ (n=edmcnier@wireless-105.media.mit.edu) has left #sugar-meeting
:'''<dirakx>''' anyone else want to introduce ?
:'''<befana>''' im pilar saenz from colombia too, i'm going to boston next ween to attend the learning workshop at 1cc
:'''<walter>''' Maybe we can meet while you are in town...
:'''<monyu>''' I'm Gloria from Colombia. I've been worked whit Pilar and Rafael for 2 years.
:'''<befana>''' walter: of course, thanks
:'''<tomeu>''' I'm a sugar developer interested in getting more direct feedback from real users
:'''<walter>''' Perhaps the main goal of the meeting is to solicit ideas about what Sugar Labs should be doing vis-a-vis deployment
:'''<walter>''' As Tomeu suggests, feedback to developers is very important
:'''<dirakx>''' some of the needings regarding that is define ways of communication
:'''<walter>''' Maybe we can start with examples of what works and what doesn't work?
:'''<dirakx>''' we have for example olpc-sur mailist and especific mailists in countries..
:'''<walter>''' Have any of you seen, for example, the wiki Bill Kerr's students are working on?
:'''<walter>''' http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/
:'''<walter>''' Of course, there is the ore formal blog for ceilbal
:'''<walter>''' ^ore^more ^ceilbal^ceibal
:'''<dirakx>''' and in other countries we are begining to see work focused to students,
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:'''<walter>''' And recently, the teachers in Peru compiled a list of feedback about Sugar...
:'''<walter>''' but it was to a private list, so it wasn't as impactful as it could have been
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: yeah i havent seen that one.
:'''<walter>''' We had written a deployment guide for OLPC: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_guide
:'''<walter>''' It has seen only a very little bit of updating since it was first posted.
:'''<walter>''' Is that because it is practically perfect in every way or of little use to actual deployments?
:'''<walter>''' And Bill Kerr has tried to document how to use Sugar when you don't (yet) have XO laptops in his blog.
:'''<befana>''' walter: maybe we need to adapter the deployment guide for smaller deploymets
:'''<walter>''' Great idea!!
:'''<walter>''' What are the concerns for smaller deployments? Can we start a page in the wiki to move this along?
:'''<dirakx>''' i think befana can do a wiki page of it surely.;-)
:'''<monyu>''' Walter: I don't understand.. What do you wanna do whit this Development Guide?... I've seen other deployment guides for activities.
:'''<walter>''' What I had in mind was a step by step guide on how to set up Sugar/OLPC in a classroom
:'''<walter>''' And how to leverage it for enhancing learning.
:'''<dirakx>''' that guide it-s been helpfull but not wided spreaded..
:'''<walter>''' In the Sugar manual (and Activity manuals) we just wrote, we tried to include tips for teachers
:'''<walter>''' how to best use the technology for learning...
:'''<dirakx>''' i mean the amyority of the people doesn-t now about it.
:'''<walter>''' But there is so much knowledge in the field that isn't being shared... too much is being rediscovered... we should stand on each others shoulders
:'''<monyu>''' Ok
:'''<dirakx>''' it would be ok to start a deployment guide in spanish for example?
:'''<befana>''' walter: we need feedback from teachers and students
:'''<dirakx>''' not just translating the english one..
:'''<monyu>''' yes. is a good Idea because in this moment there are many pilots getting ready in south america,
:'''<befana>''' dirakx: i agree, and i want to work in it
:'''<dirakx>''' to include all the specificals in Latin America
:'''<walter>''' Are there more structural things we can do to get information flowing?
:'''<dirakx>''' maybe a deployment mailist or IRC _
:'''<dirakx>''' ?
:'''<monyu>''' yes, a deployment list
:'''<dirakx>''' befana: olpc-sur has been great about it at least for south america.
:'''<walter>''' Do we need more lists? I thin OLPC-sur and IAEP are OK for now?
:'''<befana>''' a faq about deployment?
:'''<walter>''' Or do people (teachers) feel uncomfortable with these lists?
:'''<walter>''' What would be in the FAQ that is different from a guide?
:'''<dirakx>''' teachers form uruguay seem very confortable about it..
:'''<walter>''' There is a page in the OLPC guide by Carla that is a list of tips and suggestions
:'''<walter>''' is that what you mean?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: i think also that all this pages should be actively translated and localized.
:'''<walter>''' http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide/tips
:'''<walter>''' So we should be very organized about translations... good point and actionable.
:'''<dirakx>''' we need people that translate relevant issues to spanish and some others that translate all the inputs to english.
:'''<befana>''' walter: i don't see information about contacts, how to begin, who we can talk about.... etc
:'''<dirakx>''' not just talking about wiki also mailists.
:'''<monyu>''' I think we have to find a way for teachers comunication. What i mean is channels for teachers. They can share their experiences with XO laptops and help to other teachers too
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:'''<walter>''' Are teachers comfortable with IRC? It may make sense in Uruguay, but less sense in Peru where connectivity is less available?
:'''<dirakx>''' yes, uruguay is more involved in IRC channels, but peru not much.
:'''<monyu>''' walter: For teachers is not confortble, but I think we have to find a way
:'''<befana>''' walter: i think so many small organisations wants to work with olpc but they can do a 10000 xo deployment and they can use usar in other devices
:'''<walter>''' We could make a special version of xoIRC for teachers that launches a teacher channel by default
:'''<befana>''' can't
:'''<walter>''' How about a teacher journal that is uploaded once per month to a common place?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: good idea.
:'''<walter>''' this may work in Peru, where the teachers aren't on line except for Pay Day.
:'''<walter>''' The journal could prompt for specific types of feedback?
:'''<walter>''' But it may be invasive as well.
:'''<monyu>''' walter: Thar are working directly at classrooms an using the XO, I think maybe we can ask they what they need ( a IRC Channel, a Chat, a list, a wiki) and develop an specific solution for they
:'''<walter>''' The problem we have on this end is we cannot ask because we are one step removed
:'''<dirakx>''' in my point of view teachers maybe more confortable writing stuff not interacively..like blogs and mails. *so a journal would be OK
:'''<walter>''' If we can encourage them to share their journals...
:'''<walter>''' We can make it anonymous as an option too.
:'''<monyu>''' I mean a direct comunication. Many teachers read their mail twice a week
:'''<walter>''' Maybe the wikispace tools that Bill Kerr is using would be good for some.
:'''<walter>''' Would teachers object to a once per week email with questions?
:'''<walter>''' There used to be a system called the Answer Garden which could answer any question...
:'''<dirakx>''' that should be fine.
:'''<befana>''' that is a very good idea
:'''<walter>''' If you asked a question, it routed it to others and when an answer was given, it was passed back to you.
:'''<dirakx>''' but also i guees that monyu is refering that once in a while developers should meet in person with teachers and students?
:'''<walter>''' We have an offer for a robotic dialog system for Sugar... do you think teachers would be interested in that sort of help?
:'''<walter>''' Meeting face-to-face is ideal. We are trying to find a way to hold regional meetings on a regular basis.
:'''<dirakx>''' wow...that would be really cool :)
:'''<dirakx>''' developers should asist to events organized in deployment countries..
:'''<walter>''' Can we leverage existing meeting that teachers already attend? How do we find out what forums are best to use?
:'''<befana>''' this is the way, we need to meet each other
:'''<walter>''' I should talk to OLPC about taking better advantage of their Learning Workshops as well. It would be easy to add a Sugar component. But this is an area of complete disconnect at the moment.
:'''<dirakx>''' teachers are proclined to use forums or tools provided by the schools they are working on and also others provided by education authorities.
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:'''<dirakx>''' is it so befana?
:'''<befana>''' dirakx: yes, it is
:'''<walter>''' We had been working with FISL to include a teachers day at their conference... don't know how successful it was...
:'''<walter>''' Did anyone attend?
:'''<dirakx>''' dunno.
:'''<walter>''' It would seem like an ideal opportunity for cross pollination of cultures
:'''<befana>''' :( not yet
:'''<befana>''' walter: do you know this one: http://www.ups.edu.ec/portal/page/portal/congresosl
:'''<tomeu>''' putting some teachers from every deployment to talk on a mailing list wouldn't be easier?
:'''<tomeu>''' then they can arrange their meeting ;)
:'''<dirakx>''' so we have to interact more in all the senses not just virtually but also personally
:'''<walter>''' I think we need to do both
:'''<walter>''' Greg D. is working up a list of important events at which Sugar should be represented
:'''<walter>''' But I think he is engineering-focused
:'''<walter>''' We need a similar list for the learning/deployment side of things
:'''<befana>''' i agree
:'''<walter>''' I am going, for example, to a meeting for K-12 educators who advocate FOSS
:'''<dirakx>''' we can make one and put it on sugar labs wiki some where.
:'''<walter>''' http://www.k12openminds.org
:'''<walter>''' Can we list all such events?
:'''<dirakx>''' yeah... i think we can work with befana and monyu to do so.
:'''<befana>''' but we need more local information
:'''<walter>''' They can help with Sur. We need all the world
:'''<walter>''' But mayeb we make an example from LA?
:'''<befana>''' local forum, meetings,
:'''<dirakx>''' yep.
:'''<walter>''' Do the regional OLPC groups attract teachers? I think the DC group does.
:'''<walter>''' Maybe we better leverage those resources as well.
:'''<dirakx>''' for example in Uruguay and Colombia the comunication has been straight forward.
:'''<walter>''' Yes. How can we spread those successes?
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:'''<dirakx>''' between OLPC volunteer groups and theachers.
:'''<walter>''' How did, for example, Colombia, which doesn't have a major deployment yet, get started?
:'''<walter>''' Can you guys write a guide to getting organized and reaching teachers?
:'''<befana>''' yes, we can
:'''<dirakx>''' i think we need to documentate more..wirte more emails, and begin discussions on the wiki..
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: the effort in Colombia begun independently from he goverment..
:'''<dirakx>''' some NGO-s are working in small deployments at bogota, medellin and other cities.
:'''<walter>''' I think the grassroots nature of the Colombia experience is important to share
:'''<monyu>''' and some foundations too
:'''<walter>''' I've been creating some stubs in the wiki as we talk for things we need to do...
:'''<dirakx>''' and we expect to have major deployments in regions.
:'''<walter>''' http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam
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:'''<walter>''' Is there more to discuss re communications? Or should we talk about other aspects of support?
:'''<dirakx>''' move on to support.
:'''<walter>''' Have people taken a look at the FLOSS manuals?
:'''<walter>''' Are they useful? Heading in the right direction?
:'''<walter>''' Are there other documentation needs we are neglecting?
:'''<befana>''' walter: i like it, but we need FLOSS manuals in spanish too
:'''<walter>''' There is a reasonably good mechanism for translating the manuals...
:'''<dirakx>''' we need also other kinds of documentation like perhaps printed guides?
:'''<walter>''' But we need someone to do it.
:'''<walter>''' The FLOSS manuals have a PDF output that is formated to be printed as a book.
:'''<dirakx>''' oh nice to know
:'''<walter>''' http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/FM_Sugar_05Sep08.pdf
:'''<befana>''' walter: what is your idea to translatins?
:'''<walter>''' It is not obvious, but it is on the top left of the sidebar menu
:'''<befana>''' +for translations?
:'''<walter>''' http://translate.flossmanuals.net/
:'''<walter>''' I've not used the tool, but it does side-by-side translation and keeps reasonable track of changes
:'''<walter>''' Someone is already working on Italian
:'''<dirakx>''' so maybe some of the people at olpc-sur could help in doing the translation?
:'''<dirakx>''' i can write an email asking for help.
:'''<dirakx>''' and also i can help of course.
:'''<dirakx>''' ;-)
:'''<walter>''' But before we translate, is it the right content?
:'''<dirakx>''' should we add a teachers focused section ?
:'''<befana>''' dirakx: we can write to rap-ceibal too
:'''<walter>''' I tried to come up with examples of how to use things, not just how to do them... See the tutorial section the Write manual, for example
:'''<dirakx>''' befana: sure
:'''<walter>''' e.g., http://en.flossmanuals.net/Write/PeerEditing
:'''<walter>''' How can we encourage more of this?
:'''<dirakx>''' we can spread the word and include some translation jams in local events..
:'''<walter>''' I'd like to get more contributions to the writing too, but maybe that won't happen until we have a Spanish version
:'''<walter>''' But let's plan on a sprint then... push this fast and furious
:'''<befana>''' :)
:'''<dirakx>''' for example the comming events in peru and uruguay.
:'''<dirakx>''' an sprint would be fine.
:'''<walter>''' there just was an event in Uruguay. Is another planned? (or is Week 2 this coming weekend?)
:'''<tomeu>''' ceibal jam
:'''<walter>''' That is what I thought.
:'''<dirakx>''' there is another planned i think..
:'''<walter>''' So, can we wrap up with some specific action items?
:'''<walter>''' (1) I've love help fleshing out the links on http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam
:'''<dirakx>''' http://xo.org.uy/
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:'''<walter>''' (2) I made a stub for a Guide to a small Sugar deployment
:'''<walter>''' (3) ditto for Guide for Latin American Sugar deployments
:'''<walter>''' (4) and Guide to community outreach
:'''<walter>''' (5) Plus, I started a list of Meeting opportunities
:'''<dirakx>''' another link regarding that http://www.fedaro.info/
:'''<walter>''' (6) We need to organize the translation sprints
:'''<dirakx>''' 25/28 septiembre el salto uruguay
:'''<walter>''' (7) and most important, engage teachers in giving feedback on the lists
:'''<walter>''' If Rafael gets the word out on these tasks to sur and I send a note to iaep, that is a start
:'''<dirakx>''' ok will do.
:'''<dirakx>''' :)
:'''<walter>''' Plus, if we set a date for a translation sprint?
:'''<befana>''' ihelp him too
:'''<walter>''' And Pilar can help get the guides started? (In Spanish is fine)
:'''<walter>''' Any other concrete action items from today?
:'''<befana>''' ok, i can do that :)
:'''<walter>''' I'll write up minutes and post them to the wiki
:'''<dirakx>''' should i contact the organization of this event in uruguay to maybe include a translation sprint ?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: thx walter.
:'''<walter>''' BTW, does the machine translation at the top of the wiki pages serve any purpose for the teachers? Are they aware of it?
:'''<walter>''' It may be worth adding to the floss manual too
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: no that translation is dumb :-(
:'''<walter>''' Too dumb to be of any use?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: in some cases not..bt it gets you started.
:'''<walter>''' I would think that until the human translation is done, it gives at least some help
:'''<befana>''' sometimes it is incomprehensible
:'''<dirakx>''' FLOSS manual sprint would be nice...can that be set up ?
:'''<dirakx>''' have peolple at floss manuals done a sprint outside US?
:'''<walter>''' I've got to sign off in a minute... I'll be back in 10-15 minutes if people are still around...
:'''<walter>''' The floss manuals project is run out of Amsterdam.
:'''<dirakx>''' ok
:'''<walter>''' They work anywhere
:'''<befana>''' fine
:'''<walter>''' I'm back. Anyone still here?
* Topic for #sugar-meeting is: The meeting channel for the sugar developers (sugarlabs.org) | see also #sugar | meeting time: thursdays 14.00 UTC
* Topic for #sugar-meeting set by morgs at Thu Aug 14 07:37:18 2008
* #sugar-meeting :[freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
* kimquirk (n=kimquirk@wireless-88.media.mit.edu) has joined #sugar-meeting
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:'''<walter>''' people are starting to arrive
:'''<dirakx>''' hello walter >'''(
:'''<dirakx>''' :)
:'''<dirakx>''' and everyone..;-)
:'''<walter>''' I had put together a tentative agenda in the wiki... http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam#Agenda_.282008-09-10.29
:'''<walter>''' A few people have added things.
* befana (n=befana@190.158.108.227) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<walter>''' It is great to have some OLPC folks here as well.
:'''<dirakx>''' im editing it atm. also..
:'''<walter>''' Rafael, did you hear back from any one on OLPC-sur about attending?
:'''<cjb>''' Morning all.
:'''<tomeu>''' hi all, I'm lurking
:'''<walter>''' Hi Chris, Tomeu
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: some people but i havent seen one of them here right now
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:'''<monyu>''' Walter: Befana is here
:'''<walter>''' I was hoping a few folks from Peru would be joining us as well
:'''<befana>''' hi all
:'''<walter>''' I don't think everyone knows everyone here... maybe quick introductions?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: here he have people form colombia though ..monyu and befana have work with pilots in bogota
:'''<dirakx>''' yep...why not...
:'''<dirakx>''' im rafael ortiz from colombia
:'''<walter>''' I can begin: I'm walter bender and I have been tasked by the Sugar Labs board to get the ball rolling on deployment needs
:'''<dirakx>''' and i-m hoping to help in the deployment team.
:'''<walter>''' We want to be supportive of any needs in the field and also build lines of communication to the development community
* edmcnierney_ (n=edmcnier@wireless-105.media.mit.edu) has left #sugar-meeting
:'''<dirakx>''' anyone else want to introduce ?
:'''<befana>''' im pilar saenz from colombia too, i'm going to boston next ween to attend the learning workshop at 1cc
:'''<walter>''' Maybe we can meet while you are in town...
:'''<monyu>''' I'm Gloria from Colombia. I've been worked whit Pilar and Rafael for 2 years.
:'''<befana>''' walter: of course, thanks
:'''<tomeu>''' I'm a sugar developer interested in getting more direct feedback from real users
:'''<walter>''' Perhaps the main goal of the meeting is to solicit ideas about what Sugar Labs should be doing vis-a-vis deployment
:'''<walter>''' As Tomeu suggests, feedback to developers is very important
:'''<dirakx>''' some of the needings regarding that is define ways of communication
:'''<walter>''' Maybe we can start with examples of what works and what doesn't work?
:'''<dirakx>''' we have for example olpc-sur mailist and especific mailists in countries..
:'''<walter>''' Have any of you seen, for example, the wiki Bill Kerr's students are working on?
:'''<walter>''' http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/
:'''<walter>''' Of course, there is the ore formal blog for ceilbal
:'''<walter>''' ^ore^more ^ceilbal^ceibal
:'''<dirakx>''' and in other countries we are begining to see work focused to students,
* rfadel (i=1255122c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-dad6744b333ca0e4) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<walter>''' And recently, the teachers in Peru compiled a list of feedback about Sugar...
:'''<walter>''' but it was to a private list, so it wasn't as impactful as it could have been
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: yeah i havent seen that one.
:'''<walter>''' We had written a deployment guide for OLPC: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_guide
:'''<walter>''' It has seen only a very little bit of updating since it was first posted.
:'''<walter>''' Is that because it is practically perfect in every way or of little use to actual deployments?
:'''<walter>''' And Bill Kerr has tried to document how to use Sugar when you don't (yet) have XO laptops in his blog.
:'''<befana>''' walter: maybe we need to adapter the deployment guide for smaller deploymets
:'''<walter>''' Great idea!!
:'''<walter>''' What are the concerns for smaller deployments? Can we start a page in the wiki to move this along?
:'''<dirakx>''' i think befana can do a wiki page of it surely.;-)
:'''<monyu>''' Walter: I don't understand.. What do you wanna do whit this Development Guide?... I've seen other deployment guides for activities.
:'''<walter>''' What I had in mind was a step by step guide on how to set up Sugar/OLPC in a classroom
:'''<walter>''' And how to leverage it for enhancing learning.
:'''<dirakx>''' that guide it-s been helpfull but not wided spreaded..
:'''<walter>''' In the Sugar manual (and Activity manuals) we just wrote, we tried to include tips for teachers
:'''<walter>''' how to best use the technology for learning...
:'''<dirakx>''' i mean the amyority of the people doesn-t now about it.
:'''<walter>''' But there is so much knowledge in the field that isn't being shared... too much is being rediscovered... we should stand on each others shoulders
:'''<monyu>''' Ok
:'''<dirakx>''' it would be ok to start a deployment guide in spanish for example?
:'''<befana>''' walter: we need feedback from teachers and students
:'''<dirakx>''' not just translating the english one..
:'''<monyu>''' yes. is a good Idea because in this moment there are many pilots getting ready in south america,
:'''<befana>''' dirakx: i agree, and i want to work in it
:'''<dirakx>''' to include all the specificals in Latin America
:'''<walter>''' Are there more structural things we can do to get information flowing?
:'''<dirakx>''' maybe a deployment mailist or IRC _
:'''<dirakx>''' ?
:'''<monyu>''' yes, a deployment list
:'''<dirakx>''' befana: olpc-sur has been great about it at least for south america.
:'''<walter>''' Do we need more lists? I thin OLPC-sur and IAEP are OK for now?
:'''<befana>''' a faq about deployment?
:'''<walter>''' Or do people (teachers) feel uncomfortable with these lists?
:'''<walter>''' What would be in the FAQ that is different from a guide?
:'''<dirakx>''' teachers form uruguay seem very confortable about it..
:'''<walter>''' There is a page in the OLPC guide by Carla that is a list of tips and suggestions
:'''<walter>''' is that what you mean?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: i think also that all this pages should be actively translated and localized.
:'''<walter>''' http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide/tips
:'''<walter>''' So we should be very organized about translations... good point and actionable.
:'''<dirakx>''' we need people that translate relevant issues to spanish and some others that translate all the inputs to english.
:'''<befana>''' walter: i don't see information about contacts, how to begin, who we can talk about.... etc
:'''<dirakx>''' not just talking about wiki also mailists.
:'''<monyu>''' I think we have to find a way for teachers comunication. What i mean is channels for teachers. They can share their experiences with XO laptops and help to other teachers too
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:'''<walter>''' Are teachers comfortable with IRC? It may make sense in Uruguay, but less sense in Peru where connectivity is less available?
:'''<dirakx>''' yes, uruguay is more involved in IRC channels, but peru not much.
:'''<monyu>''' walter: For teachers is not confortble, but I think we have to find a way
:'''<befana>''' walter: i think so many small organisations wants to work with olpc but they can do a 10000 xo deployment and they can use usar in other devices
:'''<walter>''' We could make a special version of xoIRC for teachers that launches a teacher channel by default
:'''<befana>''' can't
:'''<walter>''' How about a teacher journal that is uploaded once per month to a common place?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: good idea.
:'''<walter>''' this may work in Peru, where the teachers aren't on line except for Pay Day.
:'''<walter>''' The journal could prompt for specific types of feedback?
:'''<walter>''' But it may be invasive as well.
:'''<monyu>''' walter: Thar are working directly at classrooms an using the XO, I think maybe we can ask they what they need ( a IRC Channel, a Chat, a list, a wiki) and develop an specific solution for they
:'''<walter>''' The problem we have on this end is we cannot ask because we are one step removed
:'''<dirakx>''' in my point of view teachers maybe more confortable writing stuff not interacively..like blogs and mails. *so a journal would be OK
:'''<walter>''' If we can encourage them to share their journals...
:'''<walter>''' We can make it anonymous as an option too.
:'''<monyu>''' I mean a direct comunication. Many teachers read their mail twice a week
:'''<walter>''' Maybe the wikispace tools that Bill Kerr is using would be good for some.
:'''<walter>''' Would teachers object to a once per week email with questions?
:'''<walter>''' There used to be a system called the Answer Garden which could answer any question...
:'''<dirakx>''' that should be fine.
:'''<befana>''' that is a very good idea
:'''<walter>''' If you asked a question, it routed it to others and when an answer was given, it was passed back to you.
:'''<dirakx>''' but also i guees that monyu is refering that once in a while developers should meet in person with teachers and students?
:'''<walter>''' We have an offer for a robotic dialog system for Sugar... do you think teachers would be interested in that sort of help?
:'''<walter>''' Meeting face-to-face is ideal. We are trying to find a way to hold regional meetings on a regular basis.
:'''<dirakx>''' wow...that would be really cool :)
:'''<dirakx>''' developers should asist to events organized in deployment countries..
:'''<walter>''' Can we leverage existing meeting that teachers already attend? How do we find out what forums are best to use?
:'''<befana>''' this is the way, we need to meet each other
:'''<walter>''' I should talk to OLPC about taking better advantage of their Learning Workshops as well. It would be easy to add a Sugar component. But this is an area of complete disconnect at the moment.
:'''<dirakx>''' teachers are proclined to use forums or tools provided by the schools they are working on and also others provided by education authorities.
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:'''<dirakx>''' is it so befana?
:'''<befana>''' dirakx: yes, it is
:'''<walter>''' We had been working with FISL to include a teachers day at their conference... don't know how successful it was...
:'''<walter>''' Did anyone attend?
:'''<dirakx>''' dunno.
:'''<walter>''' It would seem like an ideal opportunity for cross pollination of cultures
:'''<befana>''' :( not yet
:'''<befana>''' walter: do you know this one: http://www.ups.edu.ec/portal/page/portal/congresosl
:'''<tomeu>''' putting some teachers from every deployment to talk on a mailing list wouldn't be easier?
:'''<tomeu>''' then they can arrange their meeting ;)
:'''<dirakx>''' so we have to interact more in all the senses not just virtually but also personally
:'''<walter>''' I think we need to do both
:'''<walter>''' Greg D. is working up a list of important events at which Sugar should be represented
:'''<walter>''' But I think he is engineering-focused
:'''<walter>''' We need a similar list for the learning/deployment side of things
:'''<befana>''' i agree
:'''<walter>''' I am going, for example, to a meeting for K-12 educators who advocate FOSS
:'''<dirakx>''' we can make one and put it on sugar labs wiki some where.
:'''<walter>''' http://www.k12openminds.org
:'''<walter>''' Can we list all such events?
:'''<dirakx>''' yeah... i think we can work with befana and monyu to do so.
:'''<befana>''' but we need more local information
:'''<walter>''' They can help with Sur. We need all the world
:'''<walter>''' But mayeb we make an example from LA?
:'''<befana>''' local forum, meetings,
:'''<dirakx>''' yep.
:'''<walter>''' Do the regional OLPC groups attract teachers? I think the DC group does.
:'''<walter>''' Maybe we better leverage those resources as well.
:'''<dirakx>''' for example in Uruguay and Colombia the comunication has been straight forward.
:'''<walter>''' Yes. How can we spread those successes?
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:'''<dirakx>''' between OLPC volunteer groups and theachers.
:'''<walter>''' How did, for example, Colombia, which doesn't have a major deployment yet, get started?
:'''<walter>''' Can you guys write a guide to getting organized and reaching teachers?
:'''<befana>''' yes, we can
:'''<dirakx>''' i think we need to documentate more..wirte more emails, and begin discussions on the wiki..
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: the effort in Colombia begun independently from he goverment..
:'''<dirakx>''' some NGO-s are working in small deployments at bogota, medellin and other cities.
:'''<walter>''' I think the grassroots nature of the Colombia experience is important to share
:'''<monyu>''' and some foundations too
:'''<walter>''' I've been creating some stubs in the wiki as we talk for things we need to do...
:'''<dirakx>''' and we expect to have major deployments in regions.
:'''<walter>''' http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam
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:'''<walter>''' Is there more to discuss re communications? Or should we talk about other aspects of support?
:'''<dirakx>''' move on to support.
:'''<walter>''' Have people taken a look at the FLOSS manuals?
:'''<walter>''' Are they useful? Heading in the right direction?
:'''<walter>''' Are there other documentation needs we are neglecting?
:'''<befana>''' walter: i like it, but we need FLOSS manuals in spanish too
:'''<walter>''' There is a reasonably good mechanism for translating the manuals...
:'''<dirakx>''' we need also other kinds of documentation like perhaps printed guides?
:'''<walter>''' But we need someone to do it.
:'''<walter>''' The FLOSS manuals have a PDF output that is formated to be printed as a book.
:'''<dirakx>''' oh nice to know
:'''<walter>''' http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/FM_Sugar_05Sep08.pdf
:'''<befana>''' walter: what is your idea to translatins?
:'''<walter>''' It is not obvious, but it is on the top left of the sidebar menu
:'''<befana>''' +for translations?
:'''<walter>''' http://translate.flossmanuals.net/
:'''<walter>''' I've not used the tool, but it does side-by-side translation and keeps reasonable track of changes
:'''<walter>''' Someone is already working on Italian
:'''<dirakx>''' so maybe some of the people at olpc-sur could help in doing the translation?
:'''<dirakx>''' i can write an email asking for help.
:'''<dirakx>''' and also i can help of course.
:'''<dirakx>''' ;-)
:'''<walter>''' But before we translate, is it the right content?
:'''<dirakx>''' should we add a teachers focused section ?
:'''<befana>''' dirakx: we can write to rap-ceibal too
:'''<walter>''' I tried to come up with examples of how to use things, not just how to do them... See the tutorial section the Write manual, for example
:'''<dirakx>''' befana: sure
:'''<walter>''' e.g., http://en.flossmanuals.net/Write/PeerEditing
:'''<walter>''' How can we encourage more of this?
:'''<dirakx>''' we can spread the word and include some translation jams in local events..
:'''<walter>''' I'd like to get more contributions to the writing too, but maybe that won't happen until we have a Spanish version
:'''<walter>''' But let's plan on a sprint then... push this fast and furious
:'''<befana>''' :)
:'''<dirakx>''' for example the comming events in peru and uruguay.
:'''<dirakx>''' an sprint would be fine.
:'''<walter>''' there just was an event in Uruguay. Is another planned? (or is Week 2 this coming weekend?)
:'''<tomeu>''' ceibal jam
:'''<walter>''' That is what I thought.
:'''<dirakx>''' there is another planned i think..
:'''<walter>''' So, can we wrap up with some specific action items?
:'''<walter>''' (1) I've love help fleshing out the links on http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam
:'''<dirakx>''' http://xo.org.uy/
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:'''<walter>''' (2) I made a stub for a Guide to a small Sugar deployment
:'''<walter>''' (3) ditto for Guide for Latin American Sugar deployments
:'''<walter>''' (4) and Guide to community outreach
:'''<walter>''' (5) Plus, I started a list of Meeting opportunities
:'''<dirakx>''' another link regarding that http://www.fedaro.info/
:'''<walter>''' (6) We need to organize the translation sprints
:'''<dirakx>''' 25/28 septiembre el salto uruguay
:'''<walter>''' (7) and most important, engage teachers in giving feedback on the lists
:'''<walter>''' If Rafael gets the word out on these tasks to sur and I send a note to iaep, that is a start
:'''<dirakx>''' ok will do.
:'''<dirakx>''' :)
:'''<walter>''' Plus, if we set a date for a translation sprint?
:'''<befana>''' ihelp him too
:'''<walter>''' And Pilar can help get the guides started? (In Spanish is fine)
:'''<walter>''' Any other concrete action items from today?
:'''<befana>''' ok, i can do that :)
:'''<walter>''' I'll write up minutes and post them to the wiki
:'''<dirakx>''' should i contact the organization of this event in uruguay to maybe include a translation sprint ?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: thx walter.
:'''<walter>''' BTW, does the machine translation at the top of the wiki pages serve any purpose for the teachers? Are they aware of it?
:'''<walter>''' It may be worth adding to the floss manual too
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: no that translation is dumb :-(
:'''<walter>''' Too dumb to be of any use?
:'''<dirakx>''' walter: in some cases not..bt it gets you started.
:'''<walter>''' I would think that until the human translation is done, it gives at least some help
:'''<befana>''' sometimes it is incomprehensible
:'''<dirakx>''' FLOSS manual sprint would be nice...can that be set up ?
:'''<dirakx>''' have peolple at floss manuals done a sprint outside US?
:'''<walter>''' I've got to sign off in a minute... I'll be back in 10-15 minutes if people are still around...
:'''<walter>''' The floss manuals project is run out of Amsterdam.
:'''<dirakx>''' ok
:'''<walter>''' They work anywhere
:'''<befana>''' fine
:'''<walter>''' I'm back. Anyone still here?