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Oversight Board/2010/Meeting Log-2010-01-29 (view source)

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:'''<tomeu>''' hi all!

:'''<bernie>''' 'morning

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I hope people are not late as usual!

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:I hope people are not late as usual!

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I can't stand late comers

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:I can't stand late comers

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:-)))

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::-)))

:'''<SeanDaly>''' hey bernie :D

:'''<cjb>''' :)

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:'''#startmeeting'''

:'''<meeting>''' Meeting started at 11:04 UTC. The chair is walterbender.

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Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK

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:Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK

:'''<walterbender>''' how about a quick rollcall?

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* walterbender waves

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* walterbender:waves

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* cjb here

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* cjb:here

:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: did everyone else suddenly leave?

:'''<SeanDaly>''' hi walterbender

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:'''<walterbender>''' Here is the agenda:

:'''<bernie>''' CanoeBerry, mchua: ping

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* tomeu here

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* tomeu:here

:'''<walterbender>''' 1. review of TM discussion status

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2. report from the OLPC meeting in Miami

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:2. report from the OLPC meeting in Miami

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* mchua here

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* mchua:here

:'''<walterbender>''' 3. update from the infrastructure team?

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anything else?

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:anything else?

:'''<mchua>''' not fromme.

:'''<walterbender>''' '''#Topic TM'''

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* mchua wants to thank SeanDaly for all the work he's done on the TM stuff this week, case studies page looks *awesome*

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* mchua:wants to thank SeanDaly for all the work he's done on the TM stuff this week, case studies page looks *awesome*

:'''<walterbender>''' Sean, do you want to summarize where we are at the moment?

:'''<cjb>''' we seem to finally have got people talking about trademarks on the list :) thanks for the case studies page!

:'''<SeanDaly>''' thanks mchua sorry I only got to it last night

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* walterbender just made some cosmetic changes to the case-study text

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* walterbender:just made some cosmetic changes to the case-study text

:'''<SeanDaly>''' I feel the case studies page has indeed helped us to reflect on the policy

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and, revealed differing points of view cf. today's interesting exchanges with cjb, Sascha and myself

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:and, revealed differing points of view cf. today's interesting exchanges with cjb, Sascha and myself

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I feel it is important to explain how I have arrived at my point of view

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:I feel it is important to explain how I have arrived at my point of view

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otherwise, we could vote in sthing others in the community could find they are in disagreement with

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:otherwise, we could vote in sthing others in the community could find they are in disagreement with

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of course, not saying everyone has to agree,

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:of course, not saying everyone has to agree,

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but my vision is not necessarily the best one :D :D

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:but my vision is not necessarily the best one :D :D

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at the risk of being strung up on the yardarm,

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:at the risk of being strung up on the yardarm,

:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: I think your vision is pretty understandable, for a marketing guy. It's normal that the free software hippies and the marketing folks don't see entirely eye to eye. :)

:'''<SeanDaly>''' I feel it may be necessary to debate further, then to refine language before a vote

:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: it seemed to me that there are two threads: (1) written vs implicit permission and (2) are we being too restrictive

:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: yeah, nowhere near a vote yet, let's keep the discussion going.

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walterbender: that sounds right

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:walterbender: that sounds right

:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: the marketing people often think of me as geeky hippie

:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: :)

:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: yes 2 issues

:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: maybe the way to deal with (1) is review language...

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if we ask that they inform us on some schedule, like 1x per year, we can audit...

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:if we ask that they inform us on some schedule, like 1x per year, we can audit...

:'''<SeanDaly>''' yes, my concept is a period, with renewal procedure

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* mchua would like to hear more about where SeanDaly's perspective comes from

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* mchua:would like to hear more about where SeanDaly's perspective comes from

:'''<bernie>''' cjb: we're lucky to have SeanDaly. he's the hippiest marketing guy we could have hoped for :-)

:'''<walterbender>''' To me it seems that the important thing is we find out so we can ensure that the rules are being adhered to... but the ping back of written permission need not be a necessary step...

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:'''<walterbender>''' sdziallas: no se

:'''<SeanDaly>''' sure - boilerplate license agreement as Mel suggested, PDF

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* SeanDaly greets sdziallas

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* SeanDaly:greets sdziallas

:'''<cjb>''' sdziallas: I believe the presence of trademark fair use exists outside of any trademark policy

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the trademark policy can't override it; it's just there.

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:the trademark policy can't override it; it's just there.

:'''<sdziallas>''' (IANAL, but one could argue that "fair use" works as we define it - and once somebody comes up with bad intentions, it's no "fair use" anymore and they need permission.)

:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: sure - any news outlet can publish a logo

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:'''<sdziallas>''' cjb: well, but you can define what "fair use" is, no?

:'''<cjb>''' no.

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* sdziallas hints at: http://foundation.gnome.org/licensing/guidelines/

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* sdziallas:hints at: http://foundation.gnome.org/licensing/guidelines/

:'''<sdziallas>''' (hi SeanDaly at el, btw) ;)

:'''<cjb>''' you can't define what fair use for copyright is, either.

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:: dirakx (n=rafael@190.156.215.167) has joined #sugar-meeting

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:::dirakx (n=rafael@190.156.215.167) has joined #sugar-meeting

:'''<SeanDaly>''' sdziallas: I will look at that, however, I remain more interested in successful brands than unknown ones (to nongeeks)

:'''<sdziallas>''' 0x01ACTION goes quoting: "You may make fair use of GNOME word marks to make true factual statements GNOME, or to truthfully communicate that your product or service is compatible with, designed for use with, or was designed using, GNOME. Assertions of compatibility, design, must, of course, be accurate. You cannot use GNOME logos or stylizations of GNOME word or other GNOME Trademarks unless you have explicit written permission to do so. You shou

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* mchua would still like to hear where SeanDaly's perspective is coming from - as a marketer, and someone who deals with lawyers, what are the things that are usually concerning?

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* mchua:would still like to hear where SeanDaly's perspective is coming from - as a marketer, and someone who deals with lawyers, what are the things that are usually concerning?

:'''<mchua>''' (some of these are already written out, but... just to kinda sum them up in one place)

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* sdziallas shuts up. (was just wondering) ;)

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* sdziallas:shuts up. (was just wondering) ;)

:'''<SeanDaly>''' re fair use: lawyers & courts at work on that all the time

:'''<mchua>''' 'cause I think many of the rest of us are hackers, and prioritize low-barrier-to-entry stuff over... almost everything else. "ask forgiveness, not permission" mentality.

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:'''<SeanDaly>''' bernie: hee hee I don't, the SFC does

:'''<CanoeBerry>''' SeanDaly: a web page can be set asking people to agree to the legal agreement. Period.

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They click "I Agree"

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:They click "I Agree"

:'''<cjb>''' (my answer to how do you enforce -- by encoding your constraints in the trademark policy, and sending C&D if they aren't followed.)

:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Done

:'''<bernie>''' CanoeBerry: I agree

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CanoeBerry: sorry for the pun

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:CanoeBerry: sorry for the pun

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CanoeBerry: Ubuntu does it by asking you to send the agreement back by email, signed with gpg

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:CanoeBerry: Ubuntu does it by asking you to send the agreement back by email, signed with gpg

:'''<cjb>''' bernie: ooh, that's a nice step

:'''<bernie>''' CanoeBerry: it's much more legally binding, I guess. and only slightly more annoying

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:'''<SeanDaly>''' Perhaps one way to put it is: should license be a mere formality or not

:'''<cjb>''' :)

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SeanDaly: I don't think that's the issue at all

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:SeanDaly: I don't think that's the issue at all

:'''<SeanDaly>''' In my view, it should not

:'''<cjb>''' you can have a strong set of trademark constraints, just as the GPL has a strong set of copyright constraints

:'''<SeanDaly>''' because we want to grow ecosystem

:'''<cjb>''' and they can be available automatically

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just because the GPL is automatically transferred, that doesn't mean it's "a formality"

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:just because the GPL is automatically transferred, that doesn't mean it's "a formality"

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you just said you think it's being successfully enforced :)

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:you just said you think it's being successfully enforced :)

:'''<SeanDaly>''' if licensing a clickthrough formality, discussion is discouraged

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I'd much rather we learn from & exchange with potential partners

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:I'd much rather we learn from & exchange with potential partners

:'''<cjb>''' I'd like us to do that too

:'''<SeanDaly>''' in particular classroom feedback

:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: the nice thing about granting a license is that, if it is void for any reason, then the third party has no license whatsoever and is using the work in violation of copyright.

:'''<cjb>''' do we have to threaten them with legal stuff to get them to talk to us?

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bernie: for a copyright license, at least, yeah.

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:bernie: for a copyright license, at least, yeah.

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it's the nice thing about a license that encodes its constraints and revokes itself if they fail to be met.

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:it's the nice thing about a license that encodes its constraints and revokes itself if they fail to be met.

:'''<SeanDaly>''' bernie: sure, but a trademark much easier to damage

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that's why copyright & trademark law distinct

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:that's why copyright & trademark law distinct

:'''<bernie>''' cjb: I thought (maybe incorrectly) that a trademark license would work pretty much the same.

:'''<cjb>''' bernie: yeah; I just sent a mail out to the lists that makes the same claim

:'''<bernie>''' cjb: that is, you retain all rights unless you grant a valid license to someone on conditions you decide.

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ah ok

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:ah ok

:'''<SeanDaly>''' no, what is commonly called "intellectual property" (term hated by FSF) is meant to cover very different legal contexts of copyrights, trademarks, patents, and trade secrets

:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: yep

:'''<SeanDaly>''' trademarks are a special animal: very hard to build a brand, very easy to break it

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usual brand building is done with massive advertising & promotion expense

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:usual brand building is done with massive advertising & promotion expense

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we have to be smarter since we're poorer

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:we have to be smarter since we're poorer

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since brand easily breakable, much more caution necessary; very different from free sofware copyright context

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:since brand easily breakable, much more caution necessary; very different from free sofware copyright context

:'''<walterbender>''' are we stalled out for the moment?

:'''<SeanDaly>''' our balancing act needs to be: spread awareness, build up brand values, avoid confusion

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:'''<walterbender>''' but with a focus on the two issues: (1) process and (2) scope?

:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: again, what works for copyright won't necessarily work for trademark protection

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walterbender: ok

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:walterbender: ok

:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: +1

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cjb: what you said

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:cjb: what you said

:'''<walterbender>''' OK. I'll try to summarize today's discussion for the lists...

:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: thanks

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what's up next?

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:what's up next?

:'''<walterbender>''' #ACTION: Walter to summarize latest TM discussion for the lists...

:'''#TOPIC:''' trip report: OLPC meeting in Miami

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:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: was unaware you were down there! great

:'''<walterbender>''' I spent 3 days in the OLPC office in Miami.

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It was a meeting with representatives from many of their major deployments.

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:It was a meeting with representatives from many of their major deployments.

:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: yeah I hope you had a good time with cecilia

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she should be back soon

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:she should be back soon

:'''<walterbender>''' I got a chance to talk about Sugar and Sugar Labs and listen to reports from the deployments, including a report on the amazing work in Paraguay

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There is great enthusiasm for Sugar throughout the organization and with all of the deployments.

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:There is great enthusiasm for Sugar throughout the organization and with all of the deployments.

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And they want to work more closely with us.

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:And they want to work more closely with us.

:'''<SeanDaly>''' great

:'''<walterbender>''' A few concrete things came out of the meetings:

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(1) They reiterated their desire to work with us on marketing. Sean, perhaps it would be timely to ping Rodrigo and Chuck again, while it is fresh in their minds.

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:(1) They reiterated their desire to work with us on marketing. Sean, perhaps it would be timely to ping Rodrigo and Chuck again, while it is fresh in their minds.

:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: will do (Rodrigo had never answered my mails)

:'''<walterbender>''' (2) We discussed getting more direct feedback through OLPC channels, not just hit-or-miss with the deployments themselves.

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Claudia agreed to join our Design meetings, which will add important on-the-ground perspectives.

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:Claudia agreed to join our Design meetings, which will add important on-the-ground perspectives.

:'''<cjb>''' this sounds pretty promising

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let me know if I can help poke anyone to follow through :)

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:let me know if I can help poke anyone to follow through :)

:'''<walterbender>''' (3) We agreed in principle (but need to work out the details) of a model where by OLPC would offer up to deployments some Sugar developer time to help est. "local lab" teams for contributing to Sugar and FOSS.

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Sort of like developer training to complement teacher training, to be partially subsidized by OLPC and partially subsidized by the deployments.

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:Sort of like developer training to complement teacher training, to be partially subsidized by OLPC and partially subsidized by the deployments.

:'''<SeanDaly>''' fabulous

:'''<walterbender>''' In other words, they will help us get Sugar teams est. as part of the sales and deployment process.

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(4) They offered to host the next Sugar camp in Miami.

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:(4) They offered to host the next Sugar camp in Miami.

:'''<bernie>''' things are coming back together nicely

:'''<walterbender>''' (I have access to several apartments there with couch and sleeping bag space, and beach access :) )

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and they have a great work space we can use.

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:and they have a great work space we can use.

:'''<mchua>''' walterbender: any notes on timeline for that? this summer, etc?

:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: are there public minutes or slides from the meeting?

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:'''<SeanDaly>''' in alligator country

:'''<walterbender>''' tomeu: it is very nice there... and very easy access for Latin America.

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I have a lot of follow up to do, but all in all, it was a very productive 3 days.

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:I have a lot of follow up to do, but all in all, it was a very productive 3 days.

:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: did someone explained why olpc is moving there from boston, btw?

:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Moving ain't quite the word :)

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:'''<CanoeBerry>''' P2P network ;)

:'''<walterbender>''' the Association has moved to Miami.

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the Foundation remains in Cambridge

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:the Foundation remains in Cambridge

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the Association is primarily dedicated to deployments

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:the Association is primarily dedicated to deployments

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the Foundation is primarily dedicated to fund-raising and engineering

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:the Foundation is primarily dedicated to fund-raising and engineering

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CanoeBerry, cjb: did I get that right?

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:CanoeBerry, cjb: did I get that right?

:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Good enough.

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You prob saw the OLPCorps and Interns announcements in the last week.

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:You prob saw the OLPCorps and Interns announcements in the last week.

:'''<cjb>''' yep

:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: still a mystery to me how press relations & marketing works with two OLPC structures

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:'''<cjb>''' bernie: I'm not moving anywhere :)

:'''<CanoeBerry>''' http://blog.laptop.org

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http://blog.laptop.org/2010/01/20/2010-olpcorps/

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:http://blog.laptop.org/2010/01/20/2010-olpcorps/

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http://blog.laptop.org/2010/01/19/2010-internships/

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:http://blog.laptop.org/2010/01/19/2010-internships/

:'''<SeanDaly>''' OLPC Europe does PR too aside from sales, cf. press interviews

:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: I guess the ones being run with donated laptops would be foundation, association is handling all finances for deployments I think.

:'''<walterbender>''' I think OLPC Europe reports to the Association (at least loosely)

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In any case, the point is that there is a deployment-facing team in Miami that wants to work closely with us.

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:In any case, the point is that there is a deployment-facing team in Miami that wants to work closely with us.

:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: YAY

:'''<mchua>''' Any decisions that need to be made (or that will need to be made) SLOBs-wise for that?

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like "what does a partnership mean, do we need to sign any pieces of paper" etc?

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:like "what does a partnership mean, do we need to sign any pieces of paper" etc?

:'''<walterbender>''' No decisions... just a trip report.

:'''<CanoeBerry>''' (Of course, it's convenient that Claudia actually in Cambridge ;)

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:'''<tomeu>''' walterbender: maybe she would like to get involved in the experience testing in ny?

:'''<walterbender>''' but she works closely with the Miami team...

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Next up, infrastructure? Since Bernie is here?

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:Next up, infrastructure? Since Bernie is here?

:'''<bernie>''' good

:'''<walterbender>''' '''#topic''' infrastructure

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bernie: can you just give us a quick status report?

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:bernie: can you just give us a quick status report?

:'''<bernie>''' We're working with RIT to get 3 old servers racked there

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the servers are being donated by the Wikimedia foundation

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:the servers are being donated by the Wikimedia foundation

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lfaraone is working on getting the machines shipped to RIT

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:lfaraone is working on getting the machines shipped to RIT

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* dogi waves bernie

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* dogi:waves bernie

:'''<bernie>''' RIT's Prof. Stephens got us the hosting offer

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our contact at the CSH is decause, who lurks often on #sugar. we met him at FUDcon.

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:our contact at the CSH is decause, who lurks often on #sugar. we met him at FUDcon.

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the machines may turn out to be really bad, we don't know yet

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:the machines may turn out to be really bad, we don't know yet

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in which case, we'd need a contingency plan

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:in which case, we'd need a contingency plan

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such as acquiring the ~$3000 machine we were planning before this opportunity even came up

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:such as acquiring the ~$3000 machine we were planning before this opportunity even came up

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the cluster at RIT will run ASLO, which is probably our most important service.

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:the cluster at RIT will run ASLO, which is probably our most important service.

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reliability is very important to us

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:reliability is very important to us

:'''<SeanDaly>''' may I ask a silly question?

:'''<bernie>''' dfarning has a good plan to spread the load on these 3 machines in such a way that any one of them could die without stopping the service

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SeanDaly: sure

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:SeanDaly: sure

:'''<SeanDaly>''' is there an advantage to racking & maintaining directly as opposed to a service? just cost?

:'''<bernie>''' dogi will be on site to coordinate the project: racking of machines, OS installation, etc.

:'''<dogi>''' if somebody wants to know more details, here are the logs: http://me.etin.gs/treehouse/treehouse.log.20100126_1601.html

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* mchua appreciates this infrastructure report - very helpful to know what's going on, and it helps us make budget decisions (like the one last week)

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* mchua:appreciates this infrastructure report - very helpful to know what's going on, and it helps us make budget decisions (like the one last week)

:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: gregdek of red hat offered some free amazon EC access for us... but it's not clear when it will become available

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SeanDaly: I'm lurking on a mailing list where people are coordinating to develop a good Fedora image for us to use

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:SeanDaly: I'm lurking on a mailing list where people are coordinating to develop a good Fedora image for us to use

:'''<tomeu>''' virtual machines hosted on someone else's computers has caused problems in the past to us, right?

:'''<mchua>''' bernie: I thought the blocker on that was "when we can get F12 images on amazon"

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:: [scs] (n=scodas@mail.paraguayeduca.org) has joined #sugar-meeting

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:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: if it weren't for Red Hat, I'd disregard any existing cloud service out there due to costs.

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:: [scs] (n=scodas@mail.paraguayeduca.org) has joined #sugar-meeting

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:::[scs] (n=scodas@mail.paraguayeduca.org) has joined #sugar-meeting

:'''<mchua>''' bernie: I think (I don't know for sure, but we could check) that requirement came from your side of things, not RH's.

:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: our services are heavyweight. the cloud stuff is meant for small websites

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:'''<bernie>''' mchua: I'm expecting ASLO alone to cost some $3000-4000 per year.

:'''<mchua>''' walterbender: any notes for what we want to do next week?

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TM again, I'm guessing, after the community gets another feedback round in?

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:TM again, I'm guessing, after the community gets another feedback round in?

:'''<walterbender>''' mchua: next week, I'd like to discuss our 2010 goals

:'''<bernie>''' mchua: yes I'm subscribed to the Cloud SIG mailing-list, but I'm skeptical that we can ready in two weeks or so

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:'''<mchua>''' walterbender: +1

:'''<bernie>''' It's quite important to be ready in 2-3 weeks because SCHOOLS WILL OPEN IN LATAM!

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* mchua is awed by the TM list thread, it's AWESOME

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* mchua:is awed by the TM list thread, it's AWESOME

:'''<SeanDaly>''' 2010 goals very important

:'''<bernie>''' If we're not prepared to deal with the traffic, infrastructure will collapse

:'''<mchua>''' does everyone have homework to come with their individual list and try to get others in the community to write theirs?

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(individual thoughts on individual 2010 goals, sl 2010 goals, and how the two might map?)

+

:(individual thoughts on individual 2010 goals, sl 2010 goals, and how the two might map?)

:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: I don't understand yet why we don't cache more of aslo

:'''<walterbender>''' (when the .uy kids come back from vacation, they'll all want to download the new version of Turtle Art :)

:'''<tomeu>''' do we need to have it so dynamic?

−

heh

+

:heh

:'''<bernie>''' Dfarning thinks that working with RIT would also help develop important partnerships for the future. They want to get students involved.

:'''<walterbender>''' (but the new TA is only 10% of the footprint of the old one :) )

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:'''<bernie>''' tomeu: or did you mean caching web pages? not really feasible

:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: so they don't hit the php engine

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* SeanDaly greets davidfarning

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* SeanDaly:greets davidfarning

:'''<bernie>''' tomeu: it's not a wiki, it's more of a search engine

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tomeu: caching works best for applications servers, where most of the hits are actually to static content (js, png, css...)

+

:tomeu: caching works best for applications servers, where most of the hits are actually to static content (js, png, css...)

:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: ok, but the same url gives the same content 90% of the time, right?

:'''<bernie>''' tomeu: in the case of php, those are *already* being served quickly by apache without bothering php

−

tomeu: so, the load we see is really caused by web pages we'd have toserve

+

:tomeu: so, the load we see is really caused by web pages we'd have toserve

:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: not sure, I think most of the people go to a few urls, and those present the same info to all of them

:'''<bernie>''' tomeu: we can descend into tech details later on #sugar, but caching the search results, etc is extremely hard. links would break randomly, etc.

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:'''<cjb>''' the wiki proper sends a cache invalidation request to the slaveswhen a page changes

:'''<bernie>''' cjb: yes, mediawiki is easy and profitable to cache

−

cjb: but remora is a different kind of application, I don't believe it's equally easy to cache. people are welcome to try, though.

+

:cjb: but remora is a different kind of application, I don't believe it's equally easy to cache. people are welcome to try, though.

−

so, from an exclusively practical PoV (reliability, simplicity, cost), I'd recommend buying a machine

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:so, from an exclusively practical PoV (reliability, simplicity, cost), I'd recommend buying a machine

−

from a strategical pov, RIT is interesting too

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:from a strategical pov, RIT is interesting too

:'''<dogi>''' bernie, think the RIT students will try :P

:'''<SeanDaly>''' I'd be in favor of buying a machine and contributing C-notes for it

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:'''<mchua>''' walterbender: we're getting kinda late... assign goals homework, #endmeeting?

:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: lol

−

I was going to ask the board to pre-approve a budget of $3000 for the infrastructure, which I'll use only in case the current plan fails.

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:I was going to ask the board to pre-approve a budget of $3000 for the infrastructure, which I'll use only in case the current plan fails.

−

if we set aside the money now, I'll be able to move quickly in case of need

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:if we set aside the money now, I'll be able to move quickly in case of need

:'''<SeanDaly>''' I am favorable

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* mchua as well.

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* mchua:as well.

:'''<bernie>''' btw, we also need to start thinking on replacements for Solarsail. Ivan and I think that it should be dismissed soon or later.

:'''<walterbender>''' Ok. it is a wrap.

Line 343: Line 343:

:'''<mchua>''' okeydokey.

:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: the 7K figure is about right... but we may ask the Gould project for infrastructure help...

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* mchua thinks we're getting some good momentum going here

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* mchua:thinks we're getting some good momentum going here

:'''<SeanDaly>''' wish me luck for Wednesday's presentation

:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: you'll do great...

:'''<SeanDaly>''' Foundations and CSR execs from France's top corporations

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with OLPC France

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:with OLPC France

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association

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:association

:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: shout if you need any copy-edit help :)

:'''<bernie>''' dogi: in case we're stuck with no RIT hosting and no new machines, can we rely on treehouse/housetree to cope with the extra load?

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* mchua has to pop out now - thanks for a good meeting, folks.

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* mchua:has to pop out now - thanks for a good meeting, folks.

:'''<walterbender>''' '''#endmeeting'''

:'''<meeting>''' Meeting finished at 12:22.

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Logs available at http://meeting.olpcorps.net/sugar-meeting/

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:Logs available at http://meeting.olpcorps.net/sugar-meeting/

:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: will do thanks

:'''<tomeu>''' SeanDaly: good luck!

:'''<bernie>''' dogi: it will not require extra IPs, but it will sure put a *lot* of load on those machins

:'''<dogi>''' bernie, sure ... but remember treehouse/housetree was designed to be construction ground ... and since they are built your own servers, this would be only a temporary solution

Walter

Bureaucrats, Administrators

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