Talk:Features/Write to journal anytime

See Design Team/Meetings.

• 08 January 2012
• 13 March 2011
• 27 February 2011
• 20 February 2011

Log from Design Team Meeting 08 January 2012

walterbender: hi JT4sugar

JT4sugar: Hi Walter

satellit_: listening

walterbender: waiting for Christian

erikos: is here

erikos: walterbender: read your proposal and added a link to mine

erikos: walterbender: (see email)

walterbender: while we are waiting for Christian, please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Write_to_journal_anytime#Detailed_Description

walterbender: erikos: I added a link to your mock up from ^^

walterbender: erikos: so you have your code snippet for ^^

walterbender: ^so^do

erikos: walterbender: I might have it somewhere but have to first locate it

erikos: walterbender: I did code it for the mockup indeed

walterbender: I wrote the code for the Entry Alert, but didn't do the toolbar integration...

walterbender: can we reach consensus about a few points to ground the discussion?

walterbender: (1) that we don't want a modal interface for writing to the journal?

erikos: hmm, i don't see the modal alert as a too bad option

walterbender: (2) that we don't need to display the entire entry as most of it is not human-editable

walterbender: erikos: I really think it is a big problem for the use case: taking notes while you work on things

JT4sugar: walterbender, I like the look of Simon's alternative. Could description be renamed to reflection? Think this is the direction working towards not notes

walterbender: and #2 is problematic because it means the activity is almost entirely obscured

erikos: I agree on (2) that if we go down the approach sketched in the wiki page (yours or mine) we do not need all the entries of the detail view

erikos: JT4sugar: it is named description because that is the name in the Journal as well

walterbender: erikos: but maybe we could add a star for favorite to whatever widget we use

walterbender: erikos: what is your argument in favor of modal?

erikos: walterbender: what I like about the approach sketched from Christian is that the relation to the Journal is clear

walterbender: JT4sugar: +1 for "refection"

walterbender: erikos: that is made clear by #2, not #1, is it not?

erikos: walterbender: if I click on the 'take notes'-button in the activity or the details button of an entry in teh Journal we always display the same page/alert

erikos: I like that consistancy

walterbender: erikos: I would like to change the latter as well, but not for 0.96

erikos: walterbender: change the latter in which way?

walterbender: erikos: we have nice mockups of expanding the detail view in place in the journal list view

walterbender: much better, I think as it keeps a context...

walterbender: so I wouldn't want to preserve consistency with something we may be changing anyway

walterbender: plus the use case is different

walterbender: I don't disagree with the need for some reference to Journal

JT4sugar: erikos, Yes but in a writing sense you are trying to prompt reflection that is aking for more than a description? the key in the classroom is condtioning this reflective action.Can we rename field? Or create new one?

walterbender: hence my use of a Journal icon

walterbender: JT4sugar: I think description in the Journal entry could be changed to reflection as well

erikos: JT4sugar: that is what I meant, if you think 'reflection' is a better name then 'description' it should be changed in both places

JT4sugar: walterbender, Can you explain what exactly "Modal" refers to?

JT4sugar: erikos, Gotcha

walterbender: JT4sugar: you are unable to do anything else until you take action in that window

erikos: walterbender: ok, maybe inline editing will be a nice thing, but we have to try that out first

erikos: walterbender: not sure it is the golden solution

JT4sugar: OK

erikos: walterbender: so, that we change to inline editing is an assumption as well

walterbender: erikos: agreed... just bringing it up as one reason I am not wedded to replicating the detail view in this instance

erikos: ok

erikos: walterbender: what we should take into account as well is the usability with touch

erikos: walterbender: as this will come sooner or later

walterbender: replication is just one mechanism for being referential... our crack design team can come up with others

erikos: walterbender: sure

walterbender: erikos: yes... we could add a virtual keyboard to your widget

walterbender: erikos: having hacked on a XO-3.0 for 48 hours, lots of observations... for another meeting perhaps

walterbender: erikos: but fundamentally, Sugar is not a bad experience

walterbender: wonders where Christian is... will send him email

erikos: walterbender: yeah, a lot of things are already in place, indeed

walterbender: this was his suggested meeting time

erikos: walterbender: I thin khe forgot

walterbender: sent him an email

walterbender: let's assume we go with some sort of widget on the toolbar or an alert as per the mockups...

walterbender: what are the advantages/disadvantages of showing the entire description (reflection) field?

walterbender: advantage is you see you past work/context for your new reflection

erikos: yeah, lets use the time to discuss this a bit

walterbender: disadvantage is that it takes up more room

walterbender: and it may be more info than you need at the moment

walterbender: I keep going back to commit messages as a model

walterbender: you don't need to see the old ones to write a new one

erikos: so you would want to appaned it?

walterbender: it is a separate activity to review them collectively

erikos: maybe an example can help:

erikos: It is Saturday, I do start writing my essay for Monday,

erikos: before closing the activity I add a description.

erikos: On Sunday I resume the Jurnal entry, write another paragraph,

walterbender: erikos: that is the old model

walterbender: the new model is note taking in a more continuous fashion

erikos: before I close the activity I want to edit the description

walterbender: I decide to use this picture instead of that one, so I make a note of why at the time of the decision

erikos: walterbender: well, it happens inside the activity

erikos: walterbender: whether at the end of the session or during you can not really control up to the user

walterbender: it is more of a continuous monologue of decisions while using the activity

JT4sugar: Understand we are trying to get in next release but in a long term vision kind of way would there be any way this could be combined with chat like abilities that would allow a teacher to pose a question into the "Reflection Box" that then child reflects on and is captured this way? Chat like functionality would allow for peer reflection or individual with a journaling/diary feel as well

walterbender: erikos: yes... but we want to encourage more rather than less writing and reflecting

walterbender: JT4sugar: that could be a nice use of the alert mechansim

walterbender: erikos: I have a skewed world-view... everything seen through the eyes of Turtle Art

erikos: walterbender: hmmm, but then it would be like leaving messages

walterbender: erikos: yes...

walterbender: lots of commit messages

erikos: walterbender: so we would need to stamp it maybe to make clear

walterbender: stamp as in timestamp?

erikos: or at least show them in a bubble

walterbender: that's OK

erikos: walterbender: yes

walterbender: +1 to timestamps

erikos: so you somehow have a history inside the activity entry

walterbender: erikos: this is why I was leaning more towards the UI I had mocked up... more of a short message model

erikos: this is a bit like versions...;p

walterbender: well... more like a commit log

walterbender: if we had versions... it would fit nicely

erikos: sure

walterbender: but I am mostly concerned about making it easy to add reflections... path of least resistance

walterbender: which is why I am almost tempted to have the alert or widget always present if the Activity toolbar is open

erikos: ok, so let's assume we would do the approach, add 'messages', display them in bubbles and add timestamps

walterbender: to me it is more important than changing the activity name

walterbender: maybe flip them... that message entry "bubble" is always available and the title entry is invoked with a button

erikos: hmm, i think the title is important too

walterbender: it is important, but not something you change as often

erikos: but as we reomved the keep button, I think we have space for adding a 'message' field

walterbender: erikos: in a manner such as your widget...

erikos: the title entry could be shorter as well

erikos: walterbender: no, maybe directly on the toolbar

walterbender: I guess what I am saying is that by default, the widget should be open...

erikos: walterbender: yes, understood

walterbender: erikos: do you really think there is room for both?

walterbender: not in Turtle Art, but that may be exceptional

walterbender: I could rework how I do my toolbars

erikos: in TA you have the exports as well, right?

walterbender: lots of different types of exports and imports

erikos: ok

walterbender: but I could put them on a submenu

erikos: I could imagine as well the activity toolbar having the height doubled

walterbender: erikos: that is sort of what I had in mind

erikos: to give more room

walterbender: the widget always expanded

erikos: would like to sketch that now to show walter

walterbender: erikos: actually, this raises an issue I encountered with the XO-3.0

walterbender: the slightly smaller screen meant that many activity toolbars went off the end...

erikos: walterbender: so either the widget expanded by default: for example: I click on the activity toolbar to expand it and it somes up like in my screenshot

erikos: walterbender: or making it double the size by default and rearrange the items

walterbender: I think that should wrap to an double-height toolbar

erikos: walterbender: ahh, the screen is smaller ok

walterbender: we could make that happen by default instead of the pull-down menu???

walterbender: but that is outside the scope of 0.96

walterbender: but I think a double-sized activity toolbar would not break anything and would make this current issue easier to address

walterbender: so the buttons an activity adds beyond the defaults would go on the bottom row?

JT4sugar: If height doubled would that open up room for more buttons/functionality(for post 0.96 work)? If so is that where the Chat like functionality for peer review and Teacher question prompting could be put in place?

erikos: walterbender: when you say activity toolbar, do you mean the subtoolbar?

erikos: walterbender: or the main toolbar?

walterbender: erikos: yes

walterbender: is that not what the subtoolbar is called right now? /me looks

erikos: ok, I am talking as well about the activity subtoolbar with the title entry

erikos: walterbender: yeah, just making sure

walterbender: whatever toolbar is associated with the ActivityToolbarButton

erikos: good good

walterbender: so if we double its size and add the reflection entry, bump the activity specific buttons to the second row?

walterbender: maybe add a star-for-favorites button too?

erikos: yeah, space wise it is possible I guess

erikos: (we might class with the star button in Browse (session bookmark) though)

walterbender: erikos: I could try coding this up (maybe in time for the next devel team meeting)

erikos: I think the sharing button we might want to move up to the main toolbar as well....

walterbender: +1

erikos: walterbender: maybe a mail summarizing what we discussed is enough for now

walterbender: let me make some quick sketches too

erikos: but if you have time, of course

walterbender: erikos: me... all the time in the world

erikos:

walterbender: well, maybe we have gotten as far as we can w/o Christian and/or Gary

walterbender: I will grab the log and add it to the wiki page and write up an email summary

walterbender: but I think we are heading in a good direction

erikos: walterbender: wonderful, thanks!

walterbender: thank you

erikos: walterbender: yes, it was very productive indeed

walterbender: two heads are better than one

erikos: yes, was a pleasure

walterbender: three even better than two (jt)

erikos:

JT4sugar: Thanks for pushing this its very important on educational side-You staying around for 11 am meeting with Christain??

walterbender: I'll stick around

Mockups

• Detail view 20110313 from Christian M. Schmidt File:Detailview 20110313.pdf
• Detail view 20110226 from Christian M. Schmidt File:Detailview 20110226.pdf

Name for the Journal entry extended view

The set of data currently appears with a header title of 'Name this entry', (an instruction), and no separate title when retrieved from a Journal entry.

With the new ability to write notes at any time, this form should have a new title. The menu title 'Write to Journal' may be confused with 'save to Journal', 'keep in Journal', etc. Some possibilities for a new title,

1. Enter notes
2. Activity notes
3. Activity summary
4. Note in Journal
5. Edit Journal summary
6. Enter details

• The small 'forward arrow' button at the far right of the Journal entry should have a pop-up with the new title.

1. Entry notes
2. Activity notes
3. Activity summary
4. View notes
5. See Journal summary
6. View details

• The Journal entry instance extended data view, itself, is properly titled solely by the name provided in the top text entry box, as the Resume, Copy, and Erase buttons refer to the entire Journal entry (except for the default Copy action, which produces various types of clippings) and not just the extended data.

1. Better visual connections of this extended view to the parent entry would be helpful. For example, having it roll out, drop down, expand up, or similar transition from the Journal entry line would be helpful. This might be achieved without processing expensive animations.
2. The activity instance (Journal entry) title should have exactly the same appearance in the extended view (including showing the title in bold, except when editing, to match the behavior in the primary entry), and it should actually appear to be embedded in the extended view (except for the forward button, which might morph to a return button).

--FGrose 16:57, 16 November 2011 (EST)