Talk:Features/Write to journal anytime: Difference between revisions

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 See [[Design Team/Meetings]].
+* [[#Log from Design Team Meeting 08 January 2012|08 January 2012]]
 * [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-03-13T15:05:59 13 March 2011]
 * [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-02-27 27 February 2011]
 * [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-02-20T16:30:07#i_2633453 20 February 2011]
+* [http://www.mail-archive.com/sugar-devel@lists.sugarlabs.org/msg24814.html review thread]
+== Log from Design Team Meeting 08 January 2012 ==
+{{Show||
+:'''walterbender''': hi JT4sugar
+:'''JT4sugar''': Hi Walter
+:'''satellit_''': listening
+:'''walterbender''': waiting for Christian
+:'''erikos''': is here
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: read your proposal and added a link to mine
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: (see email)
+:'''walterbender''': while we are waiting for Christian, please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Write_to_journal_anytime#Detailed_Description
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: I added a link to your mock up from ^^
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: so you have your code snippet for ^^
+:'''walterbender''': ^so^do
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: I might have it somewhere but have to first locate it
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: I did code it for the mockup indeed
+:'''walterbender''': I wrote the code for the Entry Alert, but didn't do the toolbar integration...
+:'''walterbender''': can we reach consensus about a few points to ground the discussion?
+:'''walterbender''': (1) that we don't want a modal interface for writing to the journal?
+:'''erikos''': hmm, i don't see the modal alert as a too bad option
+:'''walterbender''': (2) that we don't need to display the entire entry as most of it is not human-editable
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: I really think it is a big problem for the use case: taking notes while you work on things
+:'''JT4sugar''': walterbender, I like the look of Simon's alternative. Could description be renamed to reflection? Think this is the direction working towards not notes
+:'''walterbender''': and #2 is problematic because it means the activity is almost entirely obscured
+:'''erikos''': I agree on (2) that if we go down the approach sketched in the wiki page (yours or mine) we do not need all the entries of the detail view
+:'''erikos''': JT4sugar: it is named description because that is the name in the Journal as well
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: but maybe we could add a star for favorite to whatever widget we use
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: what is your argument in favor of modal?
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: what I like about the approach sketched from Christian is that the relation to the Journal is clear
+:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: +1 for "refection"
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: that is made clear by #2, not #1, is it not?
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: if I click on the 'take notes'-button in the activity or the details button of an entry in teh Journal we always display the same page/alert
+:'''erikos''': I like that consistancy
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: I would like to change the latter as well, but not for 0.96
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: change the latter in which way?
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: we have nice mockups of expanding the detail view in place in the journal list view
+:'''walterbender''': much better, I think as it keeps a context...
+:'''walterbender''': so I wouldn't want to preserve consistency with something we may be changing anyway
+:'''walterbender''': plus the use case is different
+:'''walterbender''': I don't disagree with the need for some reference to Journal
+:'''JT4sugar''': erikos, Yes but in a writing sense you are trying to prompt reflection that is aking for more than a description? the key in the classroom is condtioning this reflective action.Can we rename field? Or create new one?
+:'''walterbender''': hence my use of a Journal icon
+:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: I think description in the Journal entry could be changed to reflection as well
+:'''erikos''': JT4sugar: that is what I meant, if you think 'reflection' is a better name then 'description' it should be changed in both places
+:'''JT4sugar''': walterbender, Can you explain what exactly "Modal" refers to?
+:'''JT4sugar''': erikos, Gotcha
+:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: you are unable to do anything else until you take action in that window
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: ok, maybe inline editing will be a nice thing, but we have to try that out first
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: not sure it is the golden solution
+:'''JT4sugar''': OK
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: so, that we change to inline editing is an assumption as well
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: agreed... just bringing it up as one reason I am not wedded to replicating the detail view in this instance
+:'''erikos''': ok
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: what we should take into account as well is the usability with touch
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: as this will come sooner or later
+:'''walterbender''': replication is just one mechanism for being referential... our crack design team can come up with others
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: sure
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes... we could add a virtual keyboard to your widget
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: having hacked on a XO-3.0 for 48 hours, lots of observations... for another meeting perhaps
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: but fundamentally, Sugar is not a bad experience
+:'''walterbender''': wonders where Christian is... will send him email
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: yeah, a lot of things are already in place, indeed
+:'''walterbender''': this was his suggested meeting time
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: I thin khe forgot
+:'''walterbender''': sent him an email
+:'''walterbender''': let's assume we go with some sort of widget on the toolbar or an alert as per the mockups...
+:'''walterbender''': what are the advantages/disadvantages of showing the entire description (reflection) field?
+:'''walterbender''': advantage is you see you past work/context for your new reflection
+:'''erikos''': yeah, lets use the time to discuss this a bit
+:'''walterbender''': disadvantage is that it takes up more room
+:'''walterbender''': and it may be more info than you need at the moment
+:'''walterbender''': I keep going back to commit messages as a model
+:'''walterbender''': you don't need to see the old ones to write a new one
+:'''erikos''': so you would want to appaned it?
+:'''walterbender''': it is a separate activity to review them collectively
+:'''erikos''': maybe an example can help:
+:'''erikos''': It is Saturday, I do start writing my essay for Monday,
+:'''erikos''': before closing the activity I add a description.
+:'''erikos''': On Sunday I resume the Jurnal entry, write another paragraph,
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: that is the old model
+:'''walterbender''': the new model is note taking in a more continuous fashion
+:'''erikos''': before I close the activity I want to edit the description
+:'''walterbender''': I decide to use this picture instead of that one, so I make a note of why at the time of the decision
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: well, it happens inside the activity
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: whether at the end of the session or during you can not really control up to the user
+:'''walterbender''': it is more of a continuous monologue of decisions while using the activity
+:'''JT4sugar''': Understand we are trying to get in next release but in a long term vision kind of way would there be any way this could be combined with chat like abilities that would allow a teacher to pose a question into the "Reflection Box" that then child reflects on and is captured this way? Chat like functionality would allow for peer reflection or individual with a journaling/diary feel as well
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes... but we want to encourage more rather than less writing and reflecting
+:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: that could be a nice use of the alert mechansim
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: I have a skewed world-view... everything seen through the eyes of Turtle Art
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: hmmm, but then it would be like leaving messages
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes...
+:'''walterbender''': lots of commit messages
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: so we would need to stamp it maybe to make clear
+:'''walterbender''': stamp as in timestamp?
+:'''erikos''': or at least show them in a bubble
+:'''walterbender''': that's OK
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: yes
+:'''walterbender''': +1 to timestamps
+:'''erikos''': so you somehow have a history inside the activity entry
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: this is why I was leaning more towards the UI I had mocked up... more of a short message model
+:'''erikos''': this is a bit like versions...;p
+:'''walterbender''': well... more like a commit log
+:'''walterbender''': if we had versions... it would fit nicely
+:'''erikos''': sure
+:'''walterbender''': but I am mostly concerned about making it easy to add reflections... path of least resistance
+:'''walterbender''': which is why I am almost tempted to have the alert or widget always present if the Activity toolbar is open
+:'''erikos''': ok, so let's assume we would do the approach, add 'messages', display them in bubbles and add timestamps
+:'''walterbender''': to me it is more important than changing the activity name
+:'''walterbender''': maybe flip them... that message entry "bubble" is always available and the title entry is invoked with a button
+:'''erikos''': hmm, i think the title is important too
+:'''walterbender''': it is important, but not something you change as often
+:'''erikos''': but as we reomved the keep button, I think we have space for adding a 'message' field
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: in a manner such as your widget...
+:'''erikos''': the title entry could be shorter as well
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: no, maybe directly on the toolbar
+:'''walterbender''': I guess what I am saying is that by default, the widget should be open...
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: yes, understood
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: do you really think there is room for both?
+:'''walterbender''': not in Turtle Art, but that may be exceptional
+:'''walterbender''': I could rework how I do my toolbars
+:'''erikos''': in TA you have the exports as well, right?
+:'''walterbender''': lots of different types of exports and imports
+:'''erikos''': ok
+:'''walterbender''': but I could put them on a submenu
+:'''erikos''': I could imagine as well the activity toolbar having the height doubled
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: that is sort of what I had in mind
+:'''erikos''': to give more room
+:'''walterbender''': the widget always expanded
+:'''erikos''': would like to sketch that now to show walter
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: actually, this raises an issue I encountered with the XO-3.0
+:'''walterbender''': the slightly smaller screen meant that many activity toolbars went off the end...
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: so either the widget expanded by default: for example: I click on the activity toolbar to expand it and it somes up like in my screenshot
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: or making it double the size by default and rearrange the items
+:'''walterbender''': I think that should wrap to an double-height toolbar
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: ahh, the screen is smaller ok
+:'''walterbender''': we could make that happen by default instead of the pull-down menu???
+:'''walterbender''': but that is outside the scope of 0.96
+:'''walterbender''': but I think a double-sized activity toolbar would not break anything and would make this current issue easier to address
+:'''walterbender''': so the buttons an activity adds beyond the defaults would go on the bottom row?
+:'''JT4sugar''': If height doubled would that open up room for more buttons/functionality(for post 0.96 work)? If so is that where the Chat like functionality for peer review and Teacher question prompting could be put in place?
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: when you say activity toolbar, do you mean the subtoolbar?
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: or the main toolbar?
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes
+:'''walterbender''': is that not what the subtoolbar is called right now? /me looks
+:'''erikos''': ok, I am talking as well about the activity subtoolbar with the title entry
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: yeah, just making sure
+:'''walterbender''': whatever toolbar is associated with the ActivityToolbarButton
+:'''erikos''': good good
+:'''walterbender''': so if we double its size and add the reflection entry, bump the activity specific buttons to the second row?
+:'''walterbender''': maybe add a star-for-favorites button too?
+:'''erikos''': yeah, space wise it is possible I guess
+:'''erikos''': (we might class with the star button in Browse (session bookmark) though)
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: I could try coding this up (maybe in time for the next devel team meeting)
+:'''erikos''': I think the sharing button we might want to move up to the main toolbar as well....
+:'''walterbender''': +1
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: maybe a mail summarizing what we discussed is enough for now
+:'''walterbender''': let me make some quick sketches too
+:'''erikos''': but if you have time, of course
+:'''walterbender''': erikos: me... all the time in the world
+:'''erikos''':
+:'''walterbender''': well, maybe we have gotten as far as we can w/o Christian and/or Gary
+:'''walterbender''': I will grab the log and add it to the wiki page and write up an email summary
+:'''walterbender''': but I think we are heading in a good direction
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: wonderful, thanks!
+:'''walterbender''': thank you
+:'''erikos''': walterbender: yes, it was very productive indeed
+:'''walterbender''': two heads are better than one
+:'''erikos''': yes, was a pleasure
+:'''walterbender''': three even better than two (jt)
+:'''erikos''':
+:'''JT4sugar''': Thanks for pushing this its very important on educational side-You staying around for 11 am meeting with Christain??
+:'''walterbender''': I'll stick around
+}}
 == Mockups ==
 * [http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/e/e2/Detailview_20110313.pdf Detail view 20110313] from Christian M. Schmidt [[File:Detailview 20110313.pdf]]