Deployment Team/Meetings/2008-09-10/Log

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<walter> people are starting to arrive

<dirakx> hello walter >(

<dirakx> :)

<dirakx> and everyone..;-)

<walter> I had put together a tentative agenda in the wiki... http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam#Agenda_.282008-09-10.29

<walter> A few people have added things.

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<walter> It is great to have some OLPC folks here as well.

<dirakx> im editing it atm. also..

<walter> Rafael, did you hear back from any one on OLPC-sur about attending?

<cjb> Morning all.

<tomeu> hi all, I'm lurking

<walter> Hi Chris, Tomeu

<dirakx> walter: some people but i havent seen one of them here right now

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<monyu> Walter: Befana is here

<walter> I was hoping a few folks from Peru would be joining us as well

<befana> hi all

<walter> I don't think everyone knows everyone here... maybe quick introductions?

<dirakx> walter: here he have people form colombia though ..monyu and befana have work with pilots in bogota

<dirakx> yep...why not...

<dirakx> im rafael ortiz from colombia

<walter> I can begin: I'm walter bender and I have been tasked by the Sugar Labs board to get the ball rolling on deployment needs

<dirakx> and i-m hoping to help in the deployment team.

<walter> We want to be supportive of any needs in the field and also build lines of communication to the development community

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<dirakx> anyone else want to introduce ?

<befana> im pilar saenz from colombia too, i'm going to boston next ween to attend the learning workshop at 1cc

<walter> Maybe we can meet while you are in town...

<monyu> I'm Gloria from Colombia. I've been worked whit Pilar and Rafael for 2 years.

<befana> walter: of course, thanks

<tomeu> I'm a sugar developer interested in getting more direct feedback from real users

<walter> Perhaps the main goal of the meeting is to solicit ideas about what Sugar Labs should be doing vis-a-vis deployment

<walter> As Tomeu suggests, feedback to developers is very important

<dirakx> some of the needings regarding that is define ways of communication

<walter> Maybe we can start with examples of what works and what doesn't work?

<dirakx> we have for example olpc-sur mailist and especific mailists in countries..

<walter> Have any of you seen, for example, the wiki Bill Kerr's students are working on?

<walter> http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/

<walter> Of course, there is the ore formal blog for ceilbal

<walter> ^ore^more ^ceilbal^ceibal

<dirakx> and in other countries we are begining to see work focused to students,

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<walter> And recently, the teachers in Peru compiled a list of feedback about Sugar...

<walter> but it was to a private list, so it wasn't as impactful as it could have been

<dirakx> walter: yeah i havent seen that one.

<walter> We had written a deployment guide for OLPC: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_guide

<walter> It has seen only a very little bit of updating since it was first posted.

<walter> Is that because it is practically perfect in every way or of little use to actual deployments?

<walter> And Bill Kerr has tried to document how to use Sugar when you don't (yet) have XO laptops in his blog.

<befana> walter: maybe we need to adapter the deployment guide for smaller deploymets

<walter> Great idea!!

<walter> What are the concerns for smaller deployments? Can we start a page in the wiki to move this along?

<dirakx> i think befana can do a wiki page of it surely.;-)

<monyu> Walter: I don't understand.. What do you wanna do whit this Development Guide?... I've seen other deployment guides for activities.

<walter> What I had in mind was a step by step guide on how to set up Sugar/OLPC in a classroom

<walter> And how to leverage it for enhancing learning.

<dirakx> that guide it-s been helpfull but not wided spreaded..

<walter> In the Sugar manual (and Activity manuals) we just wrote, we tried to include tips for teachers

<walter> how to best use the technology for learning...

<dirakx> i mean the amyority of the people doesn-t now about it.

<walter> But there is so much knowledge in the field that isn't being shared... too much is being rediscovered... we should stand on each others shoulders

<monyu> Ok

<dirakx> it would be ok to start a deployment guide in spanish for example?

<befana> walter: we need feedback from teachers and students

<dirakx> not just translating the english one..

<monyu> yes. is a good Idea because in this moment there are many pilots getting ready in south america,

<befana> dirakx: i agree, and i want to work in it

<dirakx> to include all the specificals in Latin America

<walter> Are there more structural things we can do to get information flowing?

<dirakx> maybe a deployment mailist or IRC _

<dirakx> ?

<monyu> yes, a deployment list

<dirakx> befana: olpc-sur has been great about it at least for south america.

<walter> Do we need more lists? I thin OLPC-sur and IAEP are OK for now?

<befana> a faq about deployment?

<walter> Or do people (teachers) feel uncomfortable with these lists?

<walter> What would be in the FAQ that is different from a guide?

<dirakx> teachers form uruguay seem very confortable about it..

<walter> There is a page in the OLPC guide by Carla that is a list of tips and suggestions

<walter> is that what you mean?

<dirakx> walter: i think also that all this pages should be actively translated and localized.

<walter> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide/tips

<walter> So we should be very organized about translations... good point and actionable.

<dirakx> we need people that translate relevant issues to spanish and some others that translate all the inputs to english.

<befana> walter: i don't see information about contacts, how to begin, who we can talk about.... etc

<dirakx> not just talking about wiki also mailists.

<monyu> I think we have to find a way for teachers comunication. What i mean is channels for teachers. They can share their experiences with XO laptops and help to other teachers too

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<walter> Are teachers comfortable with IRC? It may make sense in Uruguay, but less sense in Peru where connectivity is less available?

<dirakx> yes, uruguay is more involved in IRC channels, but peru not much.

<monyu> walter: For teachers is not confortble, but I think we have to find a way

<befana> walter: i think so many small organisations wants to work with olpc but they can do a 10000 xo deployment and they can use usar in other devices

<walter> We could make a special version of xoIRC for teachers that launches a teacher channel by default

<befana> can't

<walter> How about a teacher journal that is uploaded once per month to a common place?

<dirakx> walter: good idea.

<walter> this may work in Peru, where the teachers aren't on line except for Pay Day.

<walter> The journal could prompt for specific types of feedback?

<walter> But it may be invasive as well.

<monyu> walter: Thar are working directly at classrooms an using the XO, I think maybe we can ask they what they need ( a IRC Channel, a Chat, a list, a wiki) and develop an specific solution for they

<walter> The problem we have on this end is we cannot ask because we are one step removed

<dirakx> in my point of view teachers maybe more confortable writing stuff not interacively..like blogs and mails. *so a journal would be OK

<walter> If we can encourage them to share their journals...

<walter> We can make it anonymous as an option too.

<monyu> I mean a direct comunication. Many teachers read their mail twice a week

<walter> Maybe the wikispace tools that Bill Kerr is using would be good for some.

<walter> Would teachers object to a once per week email with questions?

<walter> There used to be a system called the Answer Garden which could answer any question...

<dirakx> that should be fine.

<befana> that is a very good idea

<walter> If you asked a question, it routed it to others and when an answer was given, it was passed back to you.

<dirakx> but also i guees that monyu is refering that once in a while developers should meet in person with teachers and students?

<walter> We have an offer for a robotic dialog system for Sugar... do you think teachers would be interested in that sort of help?

<walter> Meeting face-to-face is ideal. We are trying to find a way to hold regional meetings on a regular basis.

<dirakx> wow...that would be really cool :)

<dirakx> developers should asist to events organized in deployment countries..

<walter> Can we leverage existing meeting that teachers already attend? How do we find out what forums are best to use?

<befana> this is the way, we need to meet each other

<walter> I should talk to OLPC about taking better advantage of their Learning Workshops as well. It would be easy to add a Sugar component. But this is an area of complete disconnect at the moment.

<dirakx> teachers are proclined to use forums or tools provided by the schools they are working on and also others provided by education authorities.

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<dirakx> is it so befana?

<befana> dirakx: yes, it is

<walter> We had been working with FISL to include a teachers day at their conference... don't know how successful it was...

<walter> Did anyone attend?

<dirakx> dunno.

<walter> It would seem like an ideal opportunity for cross pollination of cultures

<befana> :( not yet

<befana> walter: do you know this one: http://www.ups.edu.ec/portal/page/portal/congresosl

<tomeu> putting some teachers from every deployment to talk on a mailing list wouldn't be easier?

<tomeu> then they can arrange their meeting ;)

<dirakx> so we have to interact more in all the senses not just virtually but also personally

<walter> I think we need to do both

<walter> Greg D. is working up a list of important events at which Sugar should be represented

<walter> But I think he is engineering-focused

<walter> We need a similar list for the learning/deployment side of things

<befana> i agree

<walter> I am going, for example, to a meeting for K-12 educators who advocate FOSS

<dirakx> we can make one and put it on sugar labs wiki some where.

<walter> http://www.k12openminds.org

<walter> Can we list all such events?

<dirakx> yeah... i think we can work with befana and monyu to do so.

<befana> but we need more local information

<walter> They can help with Sur. We need all the world

<walter> But mayeb we make an example from LA?

<befana> local forum, meetings,

<dirakx> yep.

<walter> Do the regional OLPC groups attract teachers? I think the DC group does.

<walter> Maybe we better leverage those resources as well.

<dirakx> for example in Uruguay and Colombia the comunication has been straight forward.

<walter> Yes. How can we spread those successes?

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<dirakx> between OLPC volunteer groups and theachers.

<walter> How did, for example, Colombia, which doesn't have a major deployment yet, get started?

<walter> Can you guys write a guide to getting organized and reaching teachers?

<befana> yes, we can

<dirakx> i think we need to documentate more..wirte more emails, and begin discussions on the wiki..

<dirakx> walter: the effort in Colombia begun independently from he goverment..

<dirakx> some NGO-s are working in small deployments at bogota, medellin and other cities.

<walter> I think the grassroots nature of the Colombia experience is important to share

<monyu> and some foundations too

<walter> I've been creating some stubs in the wiki as we talk for things we need to do...

<dirakx> and we expect to have major deployments in regions.

<walter> http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam

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<walter> Is there more to discuss re communications? Or should we talk about other aspects of support?

<dirakx> move on to support.

<walter> Have people taken a look at the FLOSS manuals?

<walter> Are they useful? Heading in the right direction?

<walter> Are there other documentation needs we are neglecting?

<befana> walter: i like it, but we need FLOSS manuals in spanish too

<walter> There is a reasonably good mechanism for translating the manuals...

<dirakx> we need also other kinds of documentation like perhaps printed guides?

<walter> But we need someone to do it.

<walter> The FLOSS manuals have a PDF output that is formated to be printed as a book.

<dirakx> oh nice to know

<walter> http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/FM_Sugar_05Sep08.pdf

<befana> walter: what is your idea to translatins?

<walter> It is not obvious, but it is on the top left of the sidebar menu

<befana> +for translations?

<walter> http://translate.flossmanuals.net/

<walter> I've not used the tool, but it does side-by-side translation and keeps reasonable track of changes

<walter> Someone is already working on Italian

<dirakx> so maybe some of the people at olpc-sur could help in doing the translation?

<dirakx> i can write an email asking for help.

<dirakx> and also i can help of course.

<dirakx> ;-)

<walter> But before we translate, is it the right content?

<dirakx> should we add a teachers focused section ?

<befana> dirakx: we can write to rap-ceibal too

<walter> I tried to come up with examples of how to use things, not just how to do them... See the tutorial section the Write manual, for example

<dirakx> befana: sure

<walter> e.g., http://en.flossmanuals.net/Write/PeerEditing

<walter> How can we encourage more of this?

<dirakx> we can spread the word and include some translation jams in local events..

<walter> I'd like to get more contributions to the writing too, but maybe that won't happen until we have a Spanish version

<walter> But let's plan on a sprint then... push this fast and furious

<befana> :)

<dirakx> for example the comming events in peru and uruguay.

<dirakx> an sprint would be fine.

<walter> there just was an event in Uruguay. Is another planned? (or is Week 2 this coming weekend?)

<tomeu> ceibal jam

<walter> That is what I thought.

<dirakx> there is another planned i think..

<walter> So, can we wrap up with some specific action items?

<walter> (1) I've love help fleshing out the links on http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam

<dirakx> http://xo.org.uy/

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<walter> (2) I made a stub for a Guide to a small Sugar deployment

<walter> (3) ditto for Guide for Latin American Sugar deployments

<walter> (4) and Guide to community outreach

<walter> (5) Plus, I started a list of Meeting opportunities

<dirakx> another link regarding that http://www.fedaro.info/

<walter> (6) We need to organize the translation sprints

<dirakx> 25/28 septiembre el salto uruguay

<walter> (7) and most important, engage teachers in giving feedback on the lists

<walter> If Rafael gets the word out on these tasks to sur and I send a note to iaep, that is a start

<dirakx> ok will do.

<dirakx> :)

<walter> Plus, if we set a date for a translation sprint?

<befana> ihelp him too

<walter> And Pilar can help get the guides started? (In Spanish is fine)

<walter> Any other concrete action items from today?

<befana> ok, i can do that :)

<walter> I'll write up minutes and post them to the wiki

<dirakx> should i contact the organization of this event in uruguay to maybe include a translation sprint ?

<dirakx> walter: thx walter.

<walter> BTW, does the machine translation at the top of the wiki pages serve any purpose for the teachers? Are they aware of it?

<walter> It may be worth adding to the floss manual too

<dirakx> walter: no that translation is dumb :-(

<walter> Too dumb to be of any use?

<dirakx> walter: in some cases not..bt it gets you started.

<walter> I would think that until the human translation is done, it gives at least some help

<befana> sometimes it is incomprehensible

<dirakx> FLOSS manual sprint would be nice...can that be set up ?

<dirakx> have peolple at floss manuals done a sprint outside US?

<walter> I've got to sign off in a minute... I'll be back in 10-15 minutes if people are still around...

<walter> The floss manuals project is run out of Amsterdam.

<dirakx> ok

<walter> They work anywhere

<befana> fine

<walter> I'm back. Anyone still here?

<befana> i'm here

<walter> I'll write up the minutes from today's discussion. We covered a lot of ground.

<walter> Thanks for your input.

<befana> walter: where i can find you next week?

<walter> I'll be in Cambridge all week.

<walter> Maybe send me an email when you know your schedule.

<befana> walter: ok, thanks

<walter> One last thing for the group: shall we try to meet again in two weeks, same time, same channel?

<tomeu> soudns good to me

<dirakx> fine

<walter> We'll be sure to mesh with Greg S.'s schedule too.

<dirakx> oh yeah..

<tomeu> and bring someone from bigger deployments?

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<tomeu> heh ;)

<dirakx> he wanted to be here badly.:)

<dirakx> tomeu: yeah someone from peru and uruguay

<tomeu> yup

<walter> I'll try to make sure someone from Peru is in attendance. Also, Yama will be available, I hope. He is in Bolivia right now.

<tomeu> juliano would be good to have here as well

<aa> Hello!

<walter> Yes. Explicit invites.

<tomeu> someone from the learning team?

<dirakx> i-ll poke yama also.

• aa is from Uruguay

<walter> Plus I'll push to get Carla to join us!!

<dirakx> aa: hello.

<tomeu> hi aa, was just saying I missed you ;)

<aa> tomeu: :)

<dirakx> walter: could david join us?

<walter> aa: the log of the discussion is on the wiki: DeploymentTeam/MeetingLog/2008-09-10

<aa> walter: thanks!

<walter> Maybe David would join us... he seems shy about speaking in a pubic forum...

<dirakx> or maybe we have a colombian friend claudia urrea she could join us also.

<tomeu> may be that

<walter> Claudia would be good.

<walter> and Juliano, as already mentioned.

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<walter> Rafael, let's make sure we get these people to join in next time. If we both ask them...

<dirakx> ok np

<walter> Well, let's call this meeting to a close.

<walter> thank you.

<dirakx> to all. :)