Oversight Board/2008/Log-2008-10-31: Difference between revisions

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:'''<walter>''' Sugar_Labs/OversightBoard/Minutes/Log-2008-10-31

:'''<erikos>''' welcome jkridner|work, aleph_6510

...

:'''<tomeu>''' walter: I can take care of that, will be around for at least one more half an hour

:'''<_bernie>''' Walter and Jason had incompatible schedules this week so they couldn't meet in person

:'''<walter>''' @tomeu: I'll take care of the formating later...

:'''<tomeu>''' TI/BB may be interesting for deployers of Sugar interested in crafting their own devices

:'''<walter>''' ciao

:'''<tomeu>''' fine, see you

:'''<_bernie>''' (jason was on a phone call a few minutes ago... might still be busy)

:'''<_bernie>''' uh, are we finished already?

:'''<_bernie>''' ;-)

:'''<tomeu>''' well, I wanted to hear about the BugSquad

:'''<dfarning_>''' tomeu: yes the TI relationship is premised on embedded developers and designers building embedded devices running sugar

:'''<tomeu>''' as it's in the agenda...

:'''<_bernie>''' I have time

:'''<_bernie>''' dfarning_: that's my expectation too.

:'''<tomeu>''' the XO hardware is very sweet, but there must be ways of improving it ;)

:'''<_bernie>''' dfarning_: the chip maker reference designs often turn into dozens of products from different companies in the same industry.

:'''<erikos>''' tomeu: i have not kept up with the bugsquad lately

:'''<aleph_6510>''' hello all! Nice to meet you :-)

:'''<_bernie>''' and clearly soon or later we'll see a generation of non-x86 ultraportables

:'''<erikos>''' tomeu: maybe with the new development release we have something to test and i can coordinate and update a bit

:'''<tomeu>''' erikos: maybe later in the cycle, and once we have trac

:'''<dfarning_>''' hey aleph_6510 thanks for helping _bernie on the beagle board

:'''<_bernie>''' aleph_6510: thanks for all your help

:'''<tomeu>''' erikos: wonder if there are people interested in packaging 0.83.1 in distros

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie, aleph_6510: how well does sugar run on it?

:'''<_bernie>''' tomeu: we already have that in fedora right? I'm just a fedora developer...

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: no 0.83 packages yet in fedora, but we could do

:'''<_bernie>''' perhaps I should find the time and use this opportunity to learn packaging for debian/ubuntu

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: would be nice to update sugar on joyride

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: the problem is that this requires NM 0.7

:'''<erikos>''' tomeu: yeah was just thinking about the packing issue as well

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: and joyride is now F9+NM 0.6

:'''<_bernie>''' tomeu: ok I'll talk with cscott about it

:'''<erikos>''' tomeu: NM is ready soon

:'''<_bernie>''' tomeu: I'm sure we can coordinate this

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: nice, I can help with sugar rpms

:'''<_bernie>''' F9 normally would come with NM 0.7... we downgraded it because sugar was not yet ready

:'''<tomeu>''' oh, ok

:'''<dfarning_>''' _bernie: Jonas is keeping up with the debian packages he is smart but quirky

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: I actually tried to install NM 0.7 in joyride, but didn't managed to get it to work

:'''<dfarning_>''' The SugarTeam at ubuntu has recently gotten up to spead

:'''<aleph_6510>''' dfarning_: I think Sugar is a wonderful project... I look forward contribute someway

:'''<_bernie>''' aleph_6510: when you have time, we have bugs

:'''<dfarning_>''' aleph_6510: we also look forward to your help:)

:'''<_bernie>''' or missing features

:'''<aleph_6510>''' Nice, I'm good at debugging ;-)

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: what are your interests? we can think something fun and useful

:'''<jkridner|work>''' hi tomeu, erikos

:'''<jkridner|work>''' nice to meet you all.

:'''* jkridner|work was on a phone call earlier.

:'''<dfarning_>''' jkridner|work: how did you feel that the sugar on beagleboard talk went?

:'''<jkridner|work>''' I think it was quite interesting, but needed more activities loaded on the card to get people familiar with Sugar.

:'''<jkridner|work>''' It was certainly able to reach a few people in the audience who had a lot of interest and cornered Bernie after the talk.

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: low level and system stuff. I'm very proficient with C/C++, but a beginner in python. Anyway I could take the chance to learn something of it

:'''<jkridner|work>''' others were confused how education and embedded systems overlapped.

:'''<dfarning_>''' I have jumped on a education thread on the beagleboard to try gathering support

:'''<jkridner|work>''' most people were very interested in playing with the interface, but were stymied by not having activities installed and no net/serial connection as the lab was setup.

:'''<tomeu>''' jkridner|work: was mentioned the possibility of doing custom UIs similar to Sugar for non-educational stuff?

:'''<jkridner|work>''' that is a very interesting area to me.

:'''<jkridner|work>''' of course, non-educational stuff is still educational stuff too. :)

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: from the links in Goals, you can see what we are up to in this release: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals

:'''<tomeu>''' everything is educational! :p

:'''<erikos>''' jkridner|work: yeah - people should not separate these things too much

:'''<jkridner|work>''' things like block diagram building are very interesting for embedded systems...

:'''<dfarning_>''' There is a team at the uw madison that is working on using sugar as the interface for medical devices

:'''<jkridner|work>''' and makes a nice UI for connecting digital signal processing blocks.

:'''<jkridner|work>''' embedded devices should be more programmable and I think sugar can help with that.

:'''<jkridner|work>''' some people made the connection, so I see that as a success.

:'''<jkridner|work>''' most didn't, so I see that as room for improvement.

:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning_: wow

:'''<erikos>''' yeah the seed is spread - now we wait to let it grow

:'''<erikos>''' dfarning_: what would they want to use it for exactly - is there a page or something?

:'''<tomeu>''' when universities in peru, uruguay, etc start to get involved in sugar development because their kids are using it, sugar may catch interest in the robotics department, etc

:'''<dfarning_>''' tomeu: It is still in the proposal phase but the have the guy who invented the algorithm for the EKG machine in their corner

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: there is a lot of interesting stuff to work on

:'''<erikos>''' dfarning_: sounds promising

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: we are few people, even if there's a name attached to it, you can probably take it up

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: do you have an XO?

:'''<jkridner|work>''' eToys is my favorite Sugar application and seems perfect for robotics and many signal processing apps.

:'''* jkridner|work has an XO, but broke it somehow and now needs to learn to fix it.

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: yes, I do, a B4

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: if so, you could work in performance and memory usage, for example

:'''<erikos>''' aleph_6510: for direct coordination - you can jump into #sugar, use the ml - or we have as well a weekly developers meeting http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings

:'''<tomeu>''' jkridner|work: a kid could do fix it for you ;)

:'''<tomeu>''' jkridner|work: yeah, watched some video about how graphical objects where hooked up to some source event from hw

:'''<tomeu>''' quite cool

:'''<jkridner|work>''' tomeu: don't have any of those handy. :)

:'''<tomeu>''' jkridner|work: bertf is our etoys hacker, he uses to be in #sugar

:'''<dfarning_>''' jkridner|work: I still have the personal goal of seeing sugar on TI server as a controller for lego mindstorms

:'''<jkridner|work>''' dfarning_: that is a shared goal then. :)

:'''<jkridner|work>''' dfarning_: have you looked much at the NI tools/UI?

:'''<dfarning_>''' jkridner|work: any chance that you will be in the boston some time from Nov 15-23? we are having a physical meeting

:'''<jkridner|work>''' almost no chance. my office is cutting back on travel thanks to the current US economic state.

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: I could look into it... are there performance problems that are not strictly python dependent?

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: I have a beagleboard too... very useful to check for memory usage :-)

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: how much it has? 128?

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: yes, 128

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: we suspect graphics performance is not as nice as it could be

:'''<dfarning_>''' jkridner|work: as to Ni tools/UI, no I am mostly working on foundation administartive stuff so the developer can focus on developing

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: you can see for example when scrolling in Browse

:'''<tomeu>''' dfarning_: and that's very reassuring!

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: I somewhat looked into Xorg graphics performance on XO months ago, with Bernie

:'''<jkridner|work>''' well, I think that Lego is doing quite a bit with NI (http://www.ni.com/academic/mindstorms/story.htm).

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: but I'm not up to date with latest developments

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: _bernie talked about last X.org updates being even slower than the older ones

:'''<tomeu>''' might be worth looking at that

:'''<dfarning_>''' jkridner|work: thanks for that

:'''<_bernie>''' tomeu: when is the sugarlabs meeting in boston?

:'''<_bernie>''' do we have exact dates?

:'''<aleph_6510>''' tomeu: so we haven't a specific culprit for bad graphics performance yet?

:'''<dfarning_>''' but I still have an emotional attachment to TI based on the speak and spell:)

:'''<jkridner|work>''' Lego seems to be very interested in graphical programming, but I'm sure there are problems that NI solves for Lego that Sugar Labs might struggle with being a non-profit based on open source software.

:'''<tomeu>''' _bernie: not yet, but we should start planning

:'''<_bernie>''' aleph_6510: nobody measured

:'''<_bernie>''' we really should

:'''<_bernie>''' with oprofile possibly

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: not that I know of

:'''<_bernie>''' possibly comparing the previous build with the current one

:'''<tomeu>''' aleph_6510: probably some interaction between the driver and something up in the stack like cairo?

:'''<aleph_6510>''' _bernie: yes! I'm starting to remember :-) I was commited to fix oprofile to have callbacks reports

:'''<dfarning_>''' Well, thanks for everythink. I've got to go poke at OSL about git and trac.

@@ Line 269: / Line 269: @@
 :'''<walter>''' Sugar_Labs/OversightBoard/Minutes/Log-2008-10-31
 :'''<erikos>''' welcome jkridner|work, aleph_6510
-...
+:'''<tomeu>'''	walter: I can take care of that, will be around for at least one more half an hour
+:'''<_bernie>'''	Walter and Jason had incompatible schedules this week so they couldn't meet in person
+:'''<walter>'''	@tomeu: I'll take care of the formating later...
+:'''<tomeu>'''	TI/BB may be interesting for deployers of Sugar interested in crafting their own devices
+:'''<walter>'''	ciao
+:'''<tomeu>'''	fine, see you
+:'''<_bernie>'''	(jason was on a phone call a few minutes ago... might still be busy)
+:'''<_bernie>'''	uh, are we finished already?
+:'''<_bernie>'''	;-)
+:'''<tomeu>'''	well, I wanted to hear about the BugSquad
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	tomeu: yes the TI relationship is premised on embedded developers and designers building embedded devices running sugar
+:'''<tomeu>'''	as it's in the agenda...
+:'''<_bernie>'''	I have time
+:'''<_bernie>'''	dfarning_: that's my expectation too.
+:'''<tomeu>'''	the XO hardware is very sweet, but there must be ways of improving it ;)
+:'''<_bernie>'''	dfarning_: the chip maker reference designs often turn into dozens of products from different companies in the same industry.
+:'''<erikos>'''	tomeu: i have not kept up with the bugsquad lately
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	hello all! Nice to meet you :-)
+:'''<_bernie>'''	and clearly soon or later we'll see a generation of non-x86 ultraportables
+:'''<erikos>'''	tomeu: maybe with the new development release we have something to test and i can coordinate and update a bit
+:'''<tomeu>'''	erikos: maybe later in the cycle, and once we have trac
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	hey aleph_6510 thanks for helping _bernie on the beagle board
+:'''<_bernie>'''	aleph_6510: thanks for all your help
+:'''<tomeu>'''	erikos: wonder if there are people interested in packaging 0.83.1 in distros
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie, aleph_6510: how well does sugar run on it?
+:'''<_bernie>'''	tomeu: we already have that in fedora right? I'm just a fedora developer...
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: no 0.83 packages yet in fedora, but we could do
+:'''<_bernie>'''	perhaps I should find the time and use this opportunity to learn packaging for debian/ubuntu
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: would be nice to update sugar on joyride
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: the problem is that this requires NM 0.7
+:'''<erikos>'''	tomeu: yeah was just thinking about the packing issue as well
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: and joyride is now F9+NM 0.6
+:'''<_bernie>'''	tomeu: ok I'll talk with cscott about it
+:'''<erikos>'''	tomeu: NM is ready soon
+:'''<_bernie>'''	tomeu: I'm sure we can coordinate this
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: nice, I can help with sugar rpms
+:'''<_bernie>'''	F9 normally would come with NM 0.7... we downgraded it because sugar was not yet ready
+:'''<tomeu>'''	oh, ok
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	_bernie: Jonas is keeping up with the debian packages he is smart but quirky
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: I actually tried to install NM 0.7 in joyride, but didn't managed to get it to work
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	The SugarTeam at ubuntu has recently gotten up to spead
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	dfarning_: I think Sugar is a wonderful project... I look forward contribute someway
+:'''<_bernie>'''	aleph_6510: when you have time, we have bugs
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	aleph_6510: we also look forward to your help:)
+:'''<_bernie>'''	or missing features
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	Nice, I'm good at debugging ;-)
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: what are your interests? we can think something fun and useful
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	hi tomeu, erikos
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	nice to meet you all.
+:'''*	jkridner|work was on a phone call earlier.
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	jkridner|work: how did you feel that the sugar on beagleboard talk went?
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	I think it was quite interesting, but needed more activities loaded on the card to get people familiar with Sugar.
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	It was certainly able to reach a few people in the audience who had a lot of interest and cornered Bernie after the talk.
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: low level and system stuff. I'm very proficient with C/C++, but a beginner in python.  Anyway I could take the chance to learn something of it
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	others were confused how education and embedded systems overlapped.
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	I have jumped on a education thread on the beagleboard to try gathering support
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	most people were very interested in playing with the interface, but were stymied by not having activities installed and no net/serial connection as the lab was setup.
+:'''<tomeu>'''	jkridner|work: was mentioned the possibility of doing custom UIs similar to Sugar for non-educational stuff?
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	that is a very interesting area to me.
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	of course, non-educational stuff is still educational stuff too. :)
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: from the links in Goals, you can see what we are up to in this release: http://sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Roadmap/0.84#Goals
+:'''<tomeu>'''	everything is educational! :p
+:'''<erikos>'''	jkridner|work: yeah - people should not separate these things too much
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	things like block diagram building are very interesting for embedded systems...
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	There is a team at the uw madison that is working on using sugar as the interface for medical devices
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	and makes a nice UI for connecting digital signal processing blocks.
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	embedded devices should be more programmable and I think sugar can help with that.
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	some people made the connection, so I see that as a success.
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	most didn't, so I see that as room for improvement.
+:'''<tomeu>'''	dfarning_: wow
+:'''<erikos>'''	yeah the seed is spread - now we wait to let it grow
+:'''<erikos>'''	dfarning_: what would they want to use it for exactly - is there a page or something?
+:'''<tomeu>'''	when universities in peru, uruguay, etc start to get involved in sugar development because their kids are using it, sugar may catch interest in the robotics department, etc
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	tomeu: It is still in the proposal phase but the have the guy who invented the algorithm for the EKG machine in their corner
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: there is a lot of interesting stuff to work on
+:'''<erikos>'''	dfarning_: sounds promising
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: we are few people, even if there's a name attached to it, you can probably take it up
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: do you have an XO?
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	eToys is my favorite Sugar application and seems perfect for robotics and many signal processing apps.
+:'''*	jkridner|work has an XO, but broke it somehow and now needs to learn to fix it.
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: yes, I do, a B4
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: if so, you could work in performance and memory usage, for example
+:'''<erikos>'''	aleph_6510: for direct coordination - you can jump into #sugar, use the ml - or we have as well a weekly developers meeting http://sugarlabs.org/go/DevelopmentTeam/Meetings
+:'''<tomeu>'''	jkridner|work: a kid could do fix it for you ;)
+:'''<tomeu>'''	jkridner|work: yeah, watched some video about how graphical objects where hooked up to some source event from hw
+:'''<tomeu>'''	quite cool
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	tomeu: don't have any of those handy. :)
+:'''<tomeu>'''	jkridner|work: bertf is our etoys hacker, he uses to be in #sugar
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	jkridner|work: I still have the personal goal of seeing sugar on TI server as a controller for lego mindstorms
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	dfarning_: that is a shared goal then. :)
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	dfarning_: have you looked much at the NI tools/UI?
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	jkridner|work: any chance that you will be in the boston some time from Nov 15-23?  we are having a physical meeting
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	almost no chance.  my office is cutting back on travel thanks to the current US economic state.
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: I could look into it... are there performance problems that are not strictly python dependent?
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: I have a beagleboard too... very useful to check for memory usage :-)
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: how much it has? 128?
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: yes, 128
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: we suspect graphics performance is not as nice as it could be
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	jkridner|work: as to Ni tools/UI, no I am mostly working on foundation administartive stuff so the developer can focus on developing
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: you can see for example when scrolling in Browse
+:'''<tomeu>'''	dfarning_: and that's very reassuring!
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: I somewhat looked into Xorg graphics performance on XO months ago, with Bernie
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	well, I think that Lego is doing quite a bit with NI (http://www.ni.com/academic/mindstorms/story.htm).
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: but I'm not up to date with latest developments
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: _bernie talked about last X.org updates being even slower than the older ones
+:'''<tomeu>'''	might be worth looking at that
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	jkridner|work: thanks for that
+:'''<_bernie>'''	tomeu: when is the sugarlabs meeting in boston?
+:'''<_bernie>'''	do we have exact dates?
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	tomeu: so we haven't a specific culprit for bad graphics performance yet?
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	but I still have an emotional attachment to TI based on the speak and spell:)
+:'''<jkridner|work>'''	Lego seems to be very interested in graphical programming, but I'm sure there are problems that NI solves for Lego that Sugar Labs might struggle with being a non-profit based on open source software.
+:'''<tomeu>'''	_bernie: not yet, but we should start planning
+:'''<_bernie>'''	aleph_6510: nobody measured
+:'''<_bernie>'''	we really should
+:'''<_bernie>'''	with oprofile possibly
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: not that I know of
+:'''<_bernie>'''	possibly comparing the previous build with the current one
+:'''<tomeu>'''	aleph_6510: probably some interaction between the driver and something up in the stack like cairo?
+:'''<aleph_6510>'''	_bernie: yes! I'm starting to remember :-)  I was commited to fix oprofile to have callbacks reports
+:'''<dfarning_>'''	Well, thanks for everythink.  I've got to go poke at OSL about git and trac.