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Oversight Board/2010/Meeting Log-2010-02-05 (view source)

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:'''tomeu''' hi all!

:'''walterbender''' hi

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it is about that time :)

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:it is about that time :)

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is bernie here?

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:is bernie here?

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anyone besides tomeu actually listening?

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:anyone besides tomeu actually listening?

:'''SeanDaly''' helooo?

:'''walterbender''' do we have quorum? We only have 3 so far

:'''tomeu''' cjb, mchua, CanoeBerry: ping

:'''walterbender''' we can chat in the meantime.

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I had a long talk with the GeoGebra team this morning...

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:I had a long talk with the GeoGebra team this morning...

:'''cjb''' morning

:'''walterbender''' They are excited about getting their activity running on Sugar... but it will finally force the issue of getting decent Java support running...

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ah. quorum...

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:ah. quorum...

:'''#'''startmeeting

:'''meeting''' Meeting started at 11:05 UTC. The chair is walterbender.

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Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK

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:Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK

:'''walterbender''' A quick roll call:

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* walterbender here

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* walterbender:here

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* SeanDaly here

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* SeanDaly:here

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* cjb here

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* cjb:here

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* tomeu as well

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* tomeu:as well

:'''walterbender''' I hope mchua pops in for the GSoC discussion

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meanwhile, shall we start with the usual: Trademarks?

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:meanwhile, shall we start with the usual: Trademarks?

:'''#'''topic update on TM discussion

:'''SeanDaly''' I had a message from Joe Raftery, but he edited my wiki page instead of sending a mail, he asked a question but I can't reach him

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly, cjb: anything worth summarizing from the discussions on the lists?

:'''SeanDaly''' I think there's a concern that the procedure will be complex

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I think it should be policy for approval to be fast-track for FOSS projects,

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:I think it should be policy for approval to be fast-track for FOSS projects,

:'''cjb''' walterbender: I think everyone who commented was against the idea that we need more strict trademark rules than the other free software projects we've been comparing ourselves to

:'''SeanDaly''' and deeper review for commercial partners

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly, cjb: do we have any specific language to propose?

:'''SeanDaly''' well, there were two comments... and no reply to my reply

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Not today I'm afraid since I was wiped out from l'Atelier OLPC France day (which went very well)

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:Not today I'm afraid since I was wiped out from l'Atelier OLPC France day (which went very well)

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But, it's clearer and clearer to me how I think it should work

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:But, it's clearer and clearer to me how I think it should work

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly: it is great that the atelier went well...

:'''SeanDaly''' yes I will brief SLOBs on great contacts in separate mail

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly, cjb: maybe the next step is for the two of you to work together on some new langauge to post to the lists...

:'''SeanDaly''' my pres. appreciated and will be published by OLPC France

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back on topic: two things

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:back on topic: two things

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly: (we need to follow up re Rotary one of these days too.)

:'''SeanDaly''' re other FOSS projects: the only one I'm interested in comparing with is a successful one

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walterbender: true

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:walterbender: true

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Mozilla has been very successful with branding

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:Mozilla has been very successful with branding

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However, that doesn't mean we need to carbon copy their policy

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:However, that doesn't mean we need to carbon copy their policy

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I'd like to emulate Dolby and Intel, but without the fees

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:I'd like to emulate Dolby and Intel, but without the fees

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly cjb: it seems the two of you are representative of the diversity of opinions, so if you can reach consensus, it will prob. be a good position.

:'''SeanDaly''' walterbender: sounds good

:'''cjb''' walterbender: ok

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not sure what a concrete next step should be, though

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:not sure what a concrete next step should be, though

:'''walterbender''' would you have time over the next week?

:'''SeanDaly''' second point: in light of my first point, are we sure we never want to charge commercial partners?

:'''cjb''' I'm interested in whether it's possible to use automatic revocation upon non-compliance in trademark licenses

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but I don't know how to find an answer to that

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:but I don't know how to find an answer to that

:'''SeanDaly''' cjb: it sure is, but the question is enforcement

:'''walterbender''' cjb: the goal is something simple and inviting for FOSS projects while maintaining some degree of oversight (as required by TM law and by our community standards)

:'''cjb''' SeanDaly: surely if we don't have any enforcement available, it doesn't matter what the policy says?

:'''SeanDaly''' cjb: we do have enforcement

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~~-->| aniN (~anin@220.225.125.245) has joined #sugar-meeting~~

:'''cjb''' ah. what exactly is the question, then?

:'''SeanDaly''' but just because the law says somebody can't steal a car, I won't leave a car running unattended with the keys in the ignition

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:'''tomeu''' not sure how well fares the moodle brand, though ;)

:'''SeanDaly''' tomeu: moodle brand not known by public, but well-known among educators by word-of-mouth

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I believe they have a rather restrictive partner policy: 2 per country

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:I believe they have a rather restrictive partner policy: 2 per country

:'''cjb''' wow, that is a surprising policy

:'''walterbender''' well, keeping in mind that we need more mindshare from educators...

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:'''tomeu''' ah, ok

:'''cjb''' maybe they will say "we think automatic trademark licenses don't work and we don't want to use them"

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and that would be useful to hear

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:and that would be useful to hear

:'''SeanDaly''' cjb: Karen said: "decide what you want & we will write the language"

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* tomeu thanks cjb and SeanDaly for taking this unsexy task

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* tomeu:thanks cjb and SeanDaly for taking this unsexy task

:'''cjb''' ok, we'll work on it :)

:'''walterbender''' #action cjb and SeanDaly will draft some new TM and run it past the community for review.

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:'''SeanDaly''' cjb: well, a fair policy for FOSS projects with fast-track approval - what's not to like? :D

:'''walterbender''' we are never going to all agree on ever detail, but if we can find something we can all work with productively...

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let's run through a few other agenda items in the meantime.

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:let's run through a few other agenda items in the meantime.

:'''SeanDaly''' walterbender: after plain English policy will be legal doc by Karen, so still a ways to go...

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly: as long as we are moving towards the goal.

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On a related topic, we have a few new TM requests that have come in this week.

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:On a related topic, we have a few new TM requests that have come in this week.

:'''SeanDaly''' walterbender: top-of-mind! :D

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I'm especially interested in openSUSE case

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:I'm especially interested in openSUSE case

:'''walterbender''' Paraguay would like to use our mark and become some flavor of Sugar Lab...

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they'd like an agreement from us.

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:they'd like an agreement from us.

:'''SeanDaly''' we don't have a way of recognizing "official" local labs do we?

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a procedure even?

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:a procedure even?

:'''walterbender''' Well, we are somewhat mired at the moment.

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we had a process in place before the TM debate

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:we had a process in place before the TM debate

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but the TM debate seems to superceed it.

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:but the TM debate seems to superceed it.

:'''SeanDaly''' yes, related...

:'''tomeu''' may be interesting to move forward with SLs argentina, in sight of recent news

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:'''tomeu''' the article is better than its title

:'''SeanDaly''' this is precisely why I wish to coordinate PR & marketing with OLPC-F and especially OLPC-A

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I have pinged Rodrigo again

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:I have pinged Rodrigo again

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more Sugar, less tech spex

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:more Sugar, less tech spex

:'''walterbender''' Anyway, I'll let Cecilia know that we are working on something for Paraguay...

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* lfaraone waves.

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* lfaraone:waves.

:'''walterbender''' OK. Can we talk about GSoC?

:'''tomeu''' I count on paraguay educa to help other countries work together in sugar

:'''SeanDaly''' walterbender:re expedite requests: I fully agree

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hey just heard back from Rodrigo - looks like we will start coordinating!!

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:hey just heard back from Rodrigo - looks like we will start coordinating!!

:'''walterbender''' SeanDaly: great...

:'''tomeu''' about gsoc, I'm personally going to focus my time on other contributors such as from downstreams

:'''walterbender''' #topic gsoc

:'''tomeu''' gsoc students have taken lots of my time in past editions

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and I'm not sure it was really worth it, compared to other contributors

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:and I'm not sure it was really worth it, compared to other contributors

:'''mchua''' Do we know what sorts of things we'd want gsoc students to take on this summer? Is this the best use of our time?

:'''cjb''' tomeu: yeah, I see where you're coming from

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:'''cjb''' well, one nice thing about gsoc is that it forces us to write down stuff we'd like other people to help with

:'''walterbender''' and some students, even if their project is not viable, go on to be community members

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cjb: yes... it enforces a certain discipline

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:cjb: yes... it enforces a certain discipline

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and it is a right of passage for a FOSS project

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:and it is a right of passage for a FOSS project

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it keeps us in the broader community eye

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:it keeps us in the broader community eye

:'''tomeu''' maybe activities would be more appropriate for gsoc?

:'''CanoeBerry''' Apologies for the very late arrival.

:'''walterbender''' for example, just this morning, GeoGebra was talk about getting involved with us on GSoC...

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hi Adam

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:hi Adam

:'''CanoeBerry''' Ciao Todos

:'''walterbender''' Adam: need a backlog?

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:'''walterbender''' I think we tied to tackle projects with too large of a scope last year...

:'''tomeu''' walterbender: +1

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also, there's a very wide range of experience and capabilities in students

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:also, there's a very wide range of experience and capabilities in students

:'''walterbender''' but the first step is to decide (1) do we apply this year and (2) is yes, who is the team?

:'''tomeu''' we should match better projects with individuals

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:'''cjb''' I'd like to see us apply but have frankly no intention of helping. sorry. :)

:'''mchua''' (1) who, if anyone, is interested in leading the sl gsoc charge this year? (2) do we feel comfortable selecting a team/lead from those who volunteered and handing this responsibility to them, pretty much completely?

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* mchua has no objections to applying, but has no further hands to lend for it this summer.

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* mchua:has no objections to applying, but has no further hands to lend for it this summer.

:'''walterbender''' I so far have heard from one person... Tim McNamara

:'''cjb''' perhaps we should post to iaep asking for volunteers to lead?

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there was Jameson (and mchua) last year

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:there was Jameson (and mchua) last year

:'''walterbender''' cjb: I've asked twice, both times buried on the Sugar Digest

:'''cjb''' ah, sorry.

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* mchua cleaning up a stub page for that right now, will be ready in ~5m

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* mchua:cleaning up a stub page for that right now, will be ready in ~5m

:'''cjb''' I do read them :-)

:'''mchua''' Yeah, I saw the mentions but they may have been lost inline for most readers.

:'''walterbender''' cjb: well, it is obvious that I haven't done a good job getting the word out...

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I'll work with Tim and try to pull in some more help.

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:I'll work with Tim and try to pull in some more help.

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mchua: the materials we prepared last year should mostly be relevant for this year.

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:mchua: the materials we prepared last year should mostly be relevant for this year.

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* mchua nods.

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* mchua:nods.

:'''walterbender''' #action Walter to be more aggressive about assembling a team for GSoC

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Any other suggestions re this topic?

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:Any other suggestions re this topic?

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OK. well, I have my action item.

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:OK. well, I have my action item.

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The final topic on today's agenda is to review our goals for 2010.

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:The final topic on today's agenda is to review our goals for 2010.

:'''#'''topic Goals for 2010

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I wrote a first draft for comment...

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:I wrote a first draft for comment...

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* walterbender looks for the URL

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* walterbender:looks for the URL

:'''CanoeBerry''' Side Comment about Tim McNamara..

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He's 100% awesome and helping me lead QA back on track.

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:He's 100% awesome and helping me lead QA back on track.

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Where we can help.

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:Where we can help.

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The Sri Lankan team is very serious.

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:The Sri Lankan team is very serious.

:'''tomeu''' CanoeBerry: hmm, maybe next development team meeting could be about QA?

:'''walterbender''' http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Oversight_Board/Meeting_Minutes-2010-01-22#Goals_for_2010_2

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:'''mchua''' CanoeBerry: in fact, please ping iaep

:'''CanoeBerry''' Will do.

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* tomeu reads proposed goals

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* tomeu:reads proposed goals

:'''mchua''' walterbender: (note that I set an arbitrary date of feb 17 for announcing interest deadline, so we can pick a coordinator 2 meetings from now)

:'''walterbender''' re goals, they are all pretty generic and not easy to measure...

:'''tomeu''' is it REL or RHEL?

:'''cjb''' it's RHEL

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pronounced our-hell :)

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:pronounced our-hell :)

:'''tomeu''' :D

:'''walterbender''' regardless of the spelling, that will be an up-hill battle...

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not technically, but in terms of the RHEL goals...

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:not technically, but in terms of the RHEL goals...

:'''mchua''' What can be done to make it easier?

:'''cjb''' yes, similar to the three-year-old battles at OLPC about what the software base would be

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we rejected RHEL then because we knew we needed newer software than it provides

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:we rejected RHEL then because we knew we needed newer software than it provides

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so I don't really understand why we think we might be a good idea now :)

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:so I don't really understand why we think we might be a good idea now :)

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* mchua was curious about that one too.

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* mchua:was curious about that one too.

:'''tomeu''' walterbender: not sure how well it is covered by your proposal, but I planned to keep focusing on bringing more downstream people into sugar development: olpc deployments, igalia, davidfarning's initiative, etc

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I think we care specially because of LTSP deployments in schools?

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:I think we care specially because of LTSP deployments in schools?

:'''walterbender''' tomeu: please add some new langauge

:'''tomeu''' walterbender: will do

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* mchua wrote up her homework here:

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* mchua:wrote up her homework here:

:'''mchua''' #link http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Mchua/Goals_2010

:'''tomeu''' walterbender: do we need to do anything special regarding RHEL?

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it is similar to how olpc decides that their next release will be f11 with 0.84

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:it is similar to how olpc decides that their next release will be f11 with 0.84

:'''mchua''' tomeu: "package things for EPEL," aiui.

:'''walterbender''' cjb: re RHEL... It seems to me that offering a distro-based solution with an expected lifetime measured in multiple years would be desirable for our deployments.

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:'''walterbender''' cjb: 3-years ago, Sugar wasn't ready... but I can anticipate being there soon... but maybe we are still 1 year too soon.

:'''SeanDaly''' actually, our six-month schedule means we will always be ahead of deployments; yet, it's a good rhythm for improving quickly

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a very stable Sugar would guarantee our success

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:a very stable Sugar would guarantee our success

:'''mchua''' tomeu: (again, aiui) what we'd want to do is have Sugar stuff packaged in the EPEL (extra packages for enterprise linux) repositories, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL

:'''tomeu''' walterbender: maybe we shouldn't worry too much about this RHEL and rather worry about the next one

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:'''tomeu''' cjb: yup

:'''cjb''' ahh

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when is that scheduled for?

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:when is that scheduled for?

:'''tomeu''' mchua: right, so no big deal, right?

:'''mchua''' tomeu: right, no big deal at all.

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:'''tomeu''' walterbender: sounds good to discuss how would sugar 1.0 would look like

:'''CanoeBerry''' INVITE: Will anybody here be joining Gerald Ardito & I our OLPC/Sugar/Haiti Creole Dinner Saturday NYC 5:30? Co-hosted with NYC's Haiti Crisis Camp. Please let me know!

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http://kombitrestaurant.com

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:http://kombitrestaurant.com

:'''tomeu''' I can see RHEL being a big deal for us if whatever version we had in the corresponding fedora release wasn't what we wanted in a stable distro

:'''SeanDaly''' might make more sense to imagine a major deployment as being the v1.0

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:'''SeanDaly''' with QA resources to match

:'''tomeu''' but maybe we don't need to worry so much right now

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walterbender: makes sense

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:walterbender: makes sense

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SeanDaly: yeah, very important

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:SeanDaly: yeah, very important

:'''cjb''' mchua: ok. but we don't have to do anything special for it other than getting our packages working well in Fedora, I'm guessing

:'''walterbender''' so I will take it off the list of goals for 2010

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:'''SeanDaly''' How does Sugar run on that distro?

:'''mchua''' cjb: and the step after that is "now that they're packaged (in EPEL) for RHEL, let's QA the living daylights out of it" which is an open question re: resources imo.

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...but comes along much later. perhaps even next year.

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:...but comes along much later. perhaps even next year.

:'''walterbender''' new wording: Define Sugar 1.0 so that we can begin partnering with long-term stable distros, such as RHEL

:'''tomeu''' cjb: not impossible for alsroot ;)

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:'''tomeu''' heh

:'''cjb''' looks like we have 2 mins, folks

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anything else?

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:anything else?

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lfaraone, walterbender: did the WMF servers arrive?

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:lfaraone, walterbender: did the WMF servers arrive?

:'''walterbender''' mchua: well, we need to talk about where we think we'll be at 1.0 in more concrete terms...

:'''tomeu''' mchua: stating what we want sugar 1.0 look like?

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:'''lfaraone''' cjb: they were supposed to ship wed, so we're looking at mon/tues

:'''SeanDaly''' I see 2 key goals for SL in 2010:

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1) fundraising

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:1) fundraising

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2) a website with the Sugar interface so anyone can try online

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:2) a website with the Sugar interface so anyone can try online

:'''walterbender''' could we take it as an action for everyone to review the goals list and make changes?

:'''tomeu''' walterbender: +1

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:'''mchua''' walterbender: more concrete terms for what, though? design, technical specs, deployability, features, activities, mechanisms-of-participation... ? what's the scope?

:'''walterbender''' OK... time is about up.

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I am traveling next week and may or may not be able to get on line. Shall we plan to meet again in two weeks?

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:I am traveling next week and may or may not be able to get on line. Shall we plan to meet again in two weeks?

:'''mchua''' worksforme.

:'''SeanDaly''' walterbender: in CSS and running on the iPad :D

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:'''walterbender''' cjb: by all means, please contact her

:'''cjb''' just to see whether she has any preference on how enforceable they are

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thanks

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:thanks

:'''walterbender''' OK.

:'''CanoeBerry''' ANNC: deployment presentation this Sunday 12 Noon @ OLPC by Vietnam Volunteer Nancie Severs.

:'''SeanDaly''' cjb: you mean if they can possibly work ;-) sure

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* mchua has a SoaS pilot to start up, will be mildly hosed next week.

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* mchua:has a SoaS pilot to start up, will be mildly hosed next week.

:'''walterbender''' thanks everyone.

:'''cjb''' SeanDaly: yeah :)

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:'''walterbender''' #endmeeting

:'''meeting''' Meeting finished at 12:06.

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Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/

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:Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/

:'''walterbender''' CanoeBerry: cannot join you in NYC :(

:'''CanoeBerry''' RSVP Required: Write holt @ laptop . org

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OK, Sunday's meeting is Boston, can you make it?

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:OK, Sunday's meeting is Boston, can you make it?

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12 Noon @ OLPC

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:12 Noon @ OLPC

:'''SeanDaly''' cjb: keep in mind enforceability not the only criteria - we need to be in contact with our deployments to grow ecosystem & get feedback

:'''walterbender''' mchua: re your third goal, we have the offer of Miami. We need to decide when.

Walter

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