Oversight Board/2008/Log-2008-10-17

<walter> I submitted the DML application. I am not sure when we hear back on that one. It is relatively general in that I ask for support for development, infrastructure, and outreach.

<walter> I also submitted a proposal to Google 10^100.

<walter> It is a very terse proposal, mostly outlining our goals and the need to support community efforts.

• marcopg (n=marco@94.160.139.226) has joined #sugar-meeting

<walter> I have two different Knight foundation proposals in the works: (1) a focus on bringing Sugar into a community network as opposed to school network environment--to foster Sugar-like collaboration on community projects; and (2) Sugar for the elderly, with a focus on accessibility and collaboration.

<tomeu> we fit quite well on g 10^100, I think

<walter> These are due at the end of the month... I'll send drafts out soon.

<marcopg> can we make two proposals? or we have to choose one?

<dfarning> One of the reasons for going with google as email is to start escalating our relationship. email -> jabber server -> funding

<marcopg> (Simon can't make today meeting btw)

<walter> And I am working with Caroline Meeks on a grant to implement Sugar on a stick: USB deployments in schools. That proposal is due on Tuesday. Lots of work to do on that one, but it is coming together nicely. We visit a pilot school this afternoon.

<tomeu> sugar-on-stick and ltsp are quite interesting

<walter> We can do as many Knight grants as we want, but I am going to talk (chat) with someone from the foundation on Monday to ask what the best approach would be in terms of their needs and expectations.

<tomeu> because are somewhat decoupled form the hw investment

<walter> In terms of LTSP, there are several commercial companies exploring thin-client solutions of Sugar.

<tomeu> dfarning: can you elaborate on that?

<dfarning> ltsp is blocked pending a 'jabber server in a box'

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<walter> The group in New Hampshire that David and I have been talking with. A group in the UK. And maybe it is time to talk to the ncomputer people, but it should be someone other than me who engages them, as I have a history with their CEO.

<tomeu> dfarning: I see, and what has gmail got to do with that?

<dfarning> tomeu, once we have a relationship start it is easer to increase, I would like them to star hosting a jabber network for us:)

<tomeu> walter: I'm impressed by how they call media's attention

<tomeu> dfarning: google? would be awesome

<walter> I had some interest at Google in helping with the Jabber stuff from a while ago. I could try to dig up those contacts again.

<tomeu> dfarning: do you think we could get the extensions we need?

<marcopg> right, the extensions are going to be tricky I guess

<dfarning> I think that it is worth my time to pursue

<tomeu> dfarning: what about packaging the XS stuff inside the ltsp server itself?

<walter> From the conversations I have been having, the issues go a bit deeper than just the XS stuff.

<tomeu> walter: you mean technical issues with the ltsp deployments?

<walter> I hope to see C. Scott in Lima to talk to him about some of these things, because they impact the Journal as well.

<walter> Schools need to think about moving data into and out of the Sugar environment.

<dfarning> none of the movers and shakers in the ltsp community are interested in looking until we have a good jabber server that works out of the box in fedora

<marcopg> yeah

<walter> And they are interested in capturing student data over the long term--portfolio assessment.

<marcopg> we really need to get there

<tomeu> walter: then scott is your man, yeah

<marcopg> perhaps morgs can help with it

<marcopg> I'm not really sure of the status there

<marcopg> and of the future plans

<marcopg> I suspect we will always need some extension

<dfarning> we are killing morgs already -> he is the prime drive at ubuntu

<walter> So we need to think about the relationship between Sugar journal data, XS backups, and import/export, not just to external storage, but in terms of legacy systems. This is more important than using the file system as per Scott's demo.

<walter> We will learn a lot from the thin client guys--they have been wrestling with these issues.

<walter> Bernie and I will see them on the 1st in New Hampshire.

<morgs> dfarning: I've been helping nubae get working on LTSP on intrepid...

<walter> But this is slightly off topic.

<marcopg> dfarning: then let's bug Robot101 about it :)

<tomeu> walter: the XS already displays backups in the web server, isn't it already quite a bit in terms of interoperability in ltsp environments?

<dfarning> nice! I would like to catch up on your progress

<tomeu> yes, we are getting technical now

<tomeu> we could discuss this stuff in the developer meetings?

<marcopg> make sense

<tomeu> we also do ad-hoc meetings when someone brings up an interesting subject like cerebro, a new journal, etc

<walter> Let me report back after Nov 1 on the needs requirements. I think we are close, but slightly off target.

<tomeu> cool, I see there some future

<dfarning> tomue, agree -> action item. engage ltsp communtiy:)

<tomeu> I think both RH and Ubuntu are interested in the ltsp educational market

<walter> Back to finances, I am going to explore some collaborations when I am in Balzano next month.

<tomeu> they could give some resources further down the road

<walter> Also, I am still pursuing the USAID grant with Pakistan and had a fruitful conversation with a team from Gao yesterday about additional local Sugar Lab efforts.

<dfarning> I am lookin into on ubuntu edeveloper hire

<walter> There may be interest by some Indian computer manufacturers that we'll try to leverage as well.

<marcopg> hire as in having ubuntu to devote a dev to sugar?

<tomeu> wow, lots of opportunities ;)

<dfarning> yes, several months away i think:(

<walter> I haven't made as much progress on the industry-support front. The economy isn't helping--thank you Mr. Bush.

<tomeu> yeah, bad timing :/

<marcopg> heh yeah that sucks

<morgs> edubuntu is ubuntu's educational project with LTSP - but the core developer (ogra) has moved to the Ubuntu mobile team and edubuntu's pretty stalled at the moment

<marcopg> we couldn't have choosed a worst time I guess ;)

<walter> I still have a few potential quick infusions of cash I am pursing that could help with bringing people to events.

<dfarning> No, we have a great time. Govt are going to being looking in to cuting costs!

<tomeu> nice, we may need to start talking about how to get the most out of those events

<walter> The good news is we have a very efficient organization in terms of cash flow :)

<tomeu> dfarning: ;)

<tomeu> heh

<walter> We have no costs to cut :)

<marcopg> hehe

<dfarning> we just need to give them a reason to chose linux over windows -> sugar can be that (emotional) reason

<tomeu> yeah, we need to get money soon, so we can waste it and then start cutting costs

<dfarning> we just need to give them a reason to chose linux over windows -> sugar can be that (emotional) reason

<tomeu> yeah, we need to get money soon, so we can waste it and then start cutting costs

<tomeu> dfarning: yeah, I think politicians may appreciate sugar's educational focus

<walter> So that is all I have to report re finances.

<tomeu> dfarning: instead of going with a std linux desktop or with windows

<walter> I have a brief SFC report: Karen still need one more signature--she didn't say who.

<tomeu> walter: after that, will be already done?

<marcopg> heh so we don't who to blame...

<tomeu> s/will/we'll

<dfarning> move entire school districts to linux -> used sugar where are appropriate

<marcopg> don't know

<walter> That concludes my agenda items (except to talk about deployment later).

<walter> Karen said that we can start working on the real issues now. David, I suggest we schedule an IRC meeting to discuss the membership issues ASAP.

<walter> (I'll be in Peru all of next week, so IRC is my main channel.)

<walter> One other thing:

<walter> I applied for us to be listed on the fsf.org site. Hasn't happened yet--not sure why.

<dfarning> sounds good, that is a blocker. Companies are reluctant to become involved until governence is in place

<walter> (And we should ask Karen to get us listed on SFC)

<dfarning> is Walter officially our ED yet?

<tomeu> dfarning: I guess all board members should vote?

<walter> And one other little thing: I got my Sugar Labs moo cards. They are really fun. I suggest everyone make them.

<tomeu> walter: do you have a link to the design?

<walter> I can provide art work if you'd like.

<marcopg> you haven't posted links to them!

<walter> I'll do it today.

<dfarning> do we have quorum?

<walter> Christian's design is perfect for their form-factor.

<tomeu> we miss _bernie, gregdek and cjb

<walter> four out of seven, but I should probably recuse myself.

<walter> But in any case, let's switch to David's agenda.

<tomeu> we can probably do it in the ml

<marcopg> yeah it's better to get everyone vote I tihnk

<walter> +1

<dfarning> Ok, I'll figure out how to vote via mail later today

<marcopg> I think the outcome is obvious but just to make things right :)

<tomeu> yup

<dfarning> marcopg, exactly

<dfarning> good habits are hard to develop, bad habits are hard to break!

<dfarning> i guess member ship is done

<tomeu> I would like to have a talk with greg about how we could do the best use out of FOSS conferences

<tomeu> perhaps on next meeting

<tomeu> or I could ask him on the ml...

<walter> I think the event stuff he is doing is a good step, but it is a lot of overhead for posting in the wiki.

<walter> BTW, I am going to LCA--I have a Sugar talk accepted. We should leverage that event.

<tomeu> walter: you mean updating the wiki page is too much work?

<dfarning> walter, greg is used to working at the rh fedora scale

<tomeu> walter: what's the title of your talk?

<walter> Maybe if there is a template... but there is lots of replication of effort--multiple pages to create, etc.

<tomeu> yeah?

<tomeu> for the brno fudcon, they had this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBrno2008

<tomeu> is quite informal, but seemed to do the job

<walter> my talk is just: "The Sugar learning platform" -- plenty of flexibility.

<walter> We'll be hosting the Boston fudcon at MIT.

<dfarning> do we have dates yet?

<walter> I think 9-11 January

<marcopg> I'll be giving a talk at linuxday in Milan

<marcopg> the 25 or something

<tomeu> oct?

<marcopg> didn't add it to the wiki, though

<marcopg> yeah

<walter> Anything else re events? (A bunch of us are going to be a FOSS conference in Lima; plus the translation sprint)

<marcopg> olpc planning meeting is not yet clearly planned

<marcopg> but maybe we should let it be just that

<walter> Yeah. As I said, I had a good meeting with Ed. I have been adding a few items to the wiki page they set up.

<marcopg> I'm not sure a co-hosted meeting really helps, might be just confusing

<dfarning> is there place on the wiki to post slides for talks

<marcopg> I still would like to see a talk to Sugar labs

<walter> There is a place in the laptop.org wiki.

<marcopg> if I'm not coming perhaps walter should give it :)

<walter> I see this as an OLPC meeting, not a Sugar Labs meeting.

<marcopg> I agree

<walter> I am not there until the end, since I will be in Europe.

<marcopg> but a talk about Sugar Labs in an OLPC meeting make sense to me

<marcopg> to improve communication/workflow with them

<marcopg> aah

<walter> I still don't understand C. Scott's comment about "us vs. them"

<tomeu> walter: last week scott and michael shared some concerns about SL

<walter> I asked him who us and them were, but he never responded.

<tomeu> walter: from their words, clearly don't feel part of SL

<marcopg> I'm not sure everyone understood what SL is about

<walter> I discussed some of that with Ed and hope to discuss it further with Scott in Lima.

<marcopg> I think they are seeing it more like a company

<tomeu> walter: would be nice to discuss how the rest of the OLPC can feel empowered to make SL what they truly need

<walter> I think Ed sees it right. And Chuck. And CJB.

<marcopg> something external which they feel is giving more issues then benefits atm

<marcopg> that's good

<tomeu> walter: will be good that you see what we can do so that Scott feels like a full member of SL

<marcopg> maybe cscott was just frustrated by me and tomeu saying bad things about olpc :)

<marcopg> and he fighted back that way

<tomeu> marcopg: oh, I actually expected he would agree with most of that

<walter> We'll work it out...

<dfarning> We just need to give it time. once we prove our worth things will work out

<tomeu> walter: nice

<walter> I'll grab him for a beer and some fried chicken and he can unleash his opinions.

<walter> good fried chicken in Lima.

<marcopg> good plan ;)

<walter> Any suggestions re the translation sprint next week?

<marcopg> maybe unmadindu have some :)

<unmadindu> link ?

<unmadindu> oh ok

<tomeu> walter: there seems to not be yet critical mass behind the aymara efforts?

<unmadindu> only Spanish translations, or Aymara/Quecha ones as well ?

<walter> We'll see who shows up in Lima

<tomeu> they had already one translation jam

<tomeu> made progresses, but looks like quechua/aymara is hard because of the new vocabulary that needs to be agreed upon

<walter> This is more focused on the FLOSSmaunels.

<tomeu> oh, see

<unmadindu> ah, ok

<tomeu> so there's only the spanish translation effort, currently

<walter> But we could expand it to Sugar too, if there is a critical mass.

<marcopg> looks like we are missing just bugsquad and infrastructure from the agenda

<marcopg> I don't think we have much to say about bugsquad

<walter> w/o SImon and Bernie...

<marcopg> depends on infrastructure

<marcopg> and on sorting out things with olpc

<dfarning> the french olpc team is planing a translation in a few weeks

<marcopg> I think Bernie is working on setting up trac on sl.org

<walter> I may see them on my way to Balzano (via Dusseldorf)

<marcopg> dfarning: did we make progress with OSL? still planning to go down that way?

<walter> And I need to ping AMD again!!

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<dfarning> I'll ask bernie to send a update to the list

<marcopg> AMD is lazy ;)

<tomeu> amd's network may drop icmp packets ;)

<walter> They did send me a proto-laptop to explore.

<marcopg> dfarning: oh, he is working with them?

<dfarning> I think he is happy with our discussion so far

<marcopg> let's hope they don't send a proto-server ;)

<dfarning> yes, they are currently setting up a machine for us

<walter> great.

<marcopg> cool!

<walter> I am all for handing this stuff off to them.

<marcopg> re trac and relation with olpc

<marcopg> I think we need our trac for at very least opening all the issue we are discovering with the other distro guys

<marcopg> if we send them to the olpc trac

<marcopg> we will just confuse everyone

<dfarning> ols with help set up an maintain trac and get for us

<marcopg> (I'm using wiki pages with Caroline for now, but that really sucks)

<marcopg> dfarning: cool

<dfarning> apparently trac has a steep learning curve from the admin side

<tomeu> sorry, off-topic, but have you seen the last occurrence of sugar-influence on the FOSS world? http://linux.conf.au/programme/schedule/view_talk/29?day=thursday

<marcopg> I'm trying to setup a little of release infrastructure

<tomeu> the bit about "View source"

<marcopg> do we already know where we will be able to give ssh out to developers?

<marcopg> is that still the AMD server?

<dfarning> I hadn't gotten that far yet

<walter> tomeu: Hurrah for View Source!!

<marcopg> tomeu: and the journal and...

<marcopg> the ideas are proliferating if nothing else ;)

<tomeu> ;)

<marcopg> dfarning: I guessed :)

<walter> marcopg: yeah. I haven't been reporting my Ubuntu bugs...

<marcopg> basically I need to figure out where to host releases, and setup automated scripts to make them etc

<marcopg> that's important for distributions to be able to package our stuff

<marcopg> and ssh access is the easiest way to do it

<dfarning> probably better not to host dev account at osl though, They have asked us to self host our build farm, download farm, and other non standard suff

<marcopg> dfarning: right

<marcopg> and Ivan doesn't seem to be happy to give ssh on his box either

<marcopg> that's why I was thinking to the AMD box

<walter> OK. I'll push to get the AMD box...

<marcopg> :)

<dfarning> marcopg, best plan is to work things out with needs with bernie, while keeping me in the loop. then I can go out and find what you need.

<marcopg> I guess with Bernie in Boston should be easy to set it up, once we get it

<marcopg> dfarning: yup, will make sure to coordinate with him

<dfarning> 'things you need'

<walter> I just pinged AMD again...

<walter> Anything else for today?

<tomeu> hmm

<tomeu> I'm good

<walter> I'll write up minutes.

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<dfarning> I am good also

<walter> (Do we need to formally approve the previous meeting's minutes each time?)

<tomeu> don't think so, people can comment afterwards, complete, etc

<walter> I post the entire transcript too, so I suppose my summaries can be verified.

<dfarning> I will look into it

<walter> OK.

<walter> So I'll be in touch from Lima next week.

<walter> chau

<dfarning> goodbye

<walter> and to Marco, ciao

<marcopg> thanks, bye

<marcopg> hehe

<marcopg> ciao ;)