Talk:Sugar on a Stick

Sugar on a Stick/FAQ

See Sugar on a Stick/FAQ and Talk:Sugar on a Stick/FAQ. For older versions of this page, see /Archive.

There's a lot going on in this thread; here is my attempt to summarize discussions so far. If I've missed or misstated anything, please correct me. Mchua 05:35, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

What are we talking about?

Part of the ongoing discussion is meant to clarify and answer the question "What is SoaS?" The other part of the discussion is exploring "where SoaS could go in the future," for various definitions of "SoaS." (Proposed Next Steps)

What is SoaS?

SoaS is a Linux-based, Sugar-running, delivered-on-a-thumbdrive distribution focused on customizability, deployability, and local support, and meant for 1-to-1 use in schools.

The term is currently a trademark owned by SL and used to refer colloquially to several things:

• the code, based on Fedora, that Sebastian has been working on (...for lack of a better descriptor)
• any bootable thumbdrive running Sugar on top, whether based on Ubuntu or Fedora or Debian or $DISTRO.
• "the physical product SL is marketing to end-users right now"

Proposed next steps

Make a SoaS mailing list

Support:

• SoaS discussions are often SoaS-specific and treat "Sugar" as an upstream; the details of development for one do not necessarily matter for the other, so splitting into two separate lists may help people manage their inbox traffic better.
• There are sufficient numbers of people (including several key SoaS developers) interested in a SoaS-specific list to enable good working conversations to be had there.

Concerns:

• The membership of an SoaS list overlaps heavily with the existing iaep and sugar-devel lists, so a new list to reach everyone may not be needed.
• Splitting off a separate list might create overly segregated conversations with less total momentum than if we all continued on iaep and sugar-devel.

Who decides: As a SL project, SoaS can get its own mailing list whenever it wants; it's just a matter of someone who is interested in a SoaS mailing list to file the appropriate ticket with Infrastructure and follow up to make sure it's created and the appropriate interested parties join it once it is made.

Formalize a SoaS development team

This means acknowledging that SoaS development and Sugar platform development are not the same thing, and that they are done by two different groups (which may have many overlapping members). The creation of a mailing list is seen as part of this separation of project identities.

Exactly how these groups will operate, what the relationship between them will be, how they will be governed, what tools they will use where, etc. are still open questions with varying opinions on each topic; however, it does not seem that anyone has objected to the notion that SoaS and the Sugar Platform are two (highly related) projects, not one.

Who decides: This is unclear.

Determine what "Sugar on a Stick" refers to

Options:

1. SoaS is a generic name usable by anyone who produces a thumbdrive-bootable Sugar, regardless of what distro, etc. that image may be based on. Since SL owns the SoaS trademark, there may be an application and approval process for projects that want to use the trademark/name, but there would be multiple "$DISTRO Sugar Spin", "$DISTRO Sugar Remix", "Sugar on $DISTRO", etc. projects.

2. SoaS is a "marketing name" used by SL as a pointer to the thumbdrive-bootable version of Sugar that SL wishes to promote at any given time. So for one press release, SL may go point to SUSE-SoaS and say "Everyone, this is SoaS!" and the next time point to Mandriva-SoaS and say "Everyone, this is SoaS!" (Note that options #1 and #2 are compatible.)

3. SoaS is a product name that refers specifically to the Fedora-based code Sebastian is working on.

Who decides: SLOBs, or a decision panel convened by SLOBs (the latter is happening now).

Determine what "the code Sebastian is working on" is called

This depends on the answer to "what 'SoaS' refers to," above.

If (1), Sebastian's code would likely be "SoaS-Fedora" or similar, possibly after an application process allowing it to use the "SoaS" name.

If (2), Sebastian's code would have a different secondary name ("SoaS-Fedora" or some other) but could (and likely would) start out as the specific SoaS edition that SL referred to when marketing "SoaS."

If (3), Sebastian's code is simply "SoaS."

Who decides: This is dependent on the answer to "what 'SoaS' refers to," so in effect the people who decide that question also decide who gets to decide this question.

Sebastian Dziallas is calling the coming iteration Sugar on a Stick, Blueberry [1].

Side questions

Determine whether SoaS is a SL-endorsed way of distributing Sugar

The consensus here seems to be that yes, SL should endorse some form or forms of distribution of Sugar on a thumbdrive using the name "Sugar on a Stick." The mission of SL is to "produce, distribute, and support" Sugar, and SoaS gives SL an easy, concrete way to demo, deploy, and therefore distribute Sugar.

Determine whether SoaS is the SL-endorsed way of distributing Sugar

Whether SoaS should be *the* SL-endorsed way of distributing Sugar is another question. Is SoaS the way that SL distributes Sugar directly to learners?

Support:

• Marketing-wise, this would be a key tool in creating widespread awareness of Sugar and having that awareness all point to a single cohesive effort.
• Since Sugar is free software, this does not preclude other distribution methods from being created and promoted independent of formal endorsement from SL.

Concerns:

• Thumbdrives are not the answer for everyone; for instance, LTSP-like compatibility may make more sense in some situations. We should not lock ourselves into a single distribution method.

Who decides: This seems to be dependent on two other decisions:

• The decision on what "SoaS" refers to (which is within the scope of this discussion)
• The decision on "whether SL wants to produce an end-user product" (which had several pros and cons mentioned during the thread, but is probably outside the scope of this discussion)

Both decisions would be made by SLOBs or a decision panel convened by the SLOBs. This issue is a peripheral one that isn't particularly within the scope of the current SoaS discussions in this thread, though.

Side notes

SJ Klein: "I would find it a refreshing counterpoint to have a group in this ecosystem focused on maintaining a toolchain that first prioritizes the overall teacher and classroom experience, and second prioritizes hardware, OS, and software details. Some of its core releases / components / packages (for instance, a new social & procedural system for getting help or processing feedback) might not involve a single transistor or line of code."

Feedback from a first grade teacher: What teachers care about: (1) Is it friendly? (2) Is it consistent? (3) Can the effort needed to maintain it be sustained? What they don't care about: (1) What group "runs" it? (2) Who owns the trademark? (3) What bleeding-edge features are being developed now for a future release? (3) What is the underlying technology? What would reassure them: (1) Peer support. (2) Seeing it in action, so they can create a "mental paradigm" category for something like Sugar/SoaS.

Added Notes:(Tom Gilliard 9/21/2009) "satellit"

• 1.) F12 and opensuse-edu now distribute a dual mode live.iso of Sugar-Desktop which boots into sugar as a CD or can be used to dd write to a USB/SD "stick". (persistence is a work in progress on these)[[2]] [[3]][[4]][[5]]

• 2.) Sugar from multiple distros is available as a VMPlayer or Virtualbox "Appliance" which can be stored on a USB/SD "Stick" and thus is transportable with (persistence) from PC to PC.

• 3.) There are "full installs"(real file structure-not a live system) of: Sugar, Sugar+Gnome, Sugar+KDE on larger(4GB+) USB Sticks which are available for download in compressed form that can be written to a bootable USB/SD with a dd command in several minutes.

Are these also Soas? Or something different and does it matter that much, as long as they are allowing wider distribution and use of SUGAR?