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Oversight Board/2009/Meeting Log-2009-11-13 (view source)
Revision as of 13:47, 13 November 2009
, 13:47, 13 November 2009Created page with '== Oversight Board Meeting Log 2009-11-13 == :'''<walterbender>''' FWIW, I may be a few minutes late to the SLOBs meeting. The conference is scheduled to end at 4, but it is run…'
== Oversight Board Meeting Log 2009-11-13 ==
:'''<walterbender>''' FWIW, I may be a few minutes late to the SLOBs meeting. The conference is scheduled to end at 4, but it is running late. (I am the last talk.)
:'''<walterbender>''' But please get started without me.
|<-- sdziallas has left freenode ("Ex-Chat")
:'''<walterbender>''' I will definitely by about 15 - 20 minutes late.
-->| SeanDaly (n=chatzill@static-241102.xdsl.raiffeisen.net) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<cjb>''' morning.
:'''<tomeu>''' hi all
:'''<SeanDaly>''' hi Sean here
:'''<tomeu>''' SeanDaly: is walterbender speaking now?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I am in SFScon auditorium, Walter is up next
* tomeu is hidden in a hole coding
:'''<SeanDaly>''' Federico is onstage now re Zeitgeist
:'''<walterbender>''' looks like I am not up next... so I can start meeting and just break when I have to get on stage
* SeanDaly a bit nervous about getting my plane
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: the airport is 10 minutes away
:'''<walterbender>''' shall we have a quick meeting?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: my brain says no problem, my heart says 900 roros if I miss it
:'''<walterbender>''' OK. with me.
:'''<cjb>''' bernie: ping
:'''<cjb>''' someone able to poke Adam?
:'''<walterbender>''' mel cannot join us. nor Adam
:'''<tomeu>''' cjb: adam is traveling now
:'''<cjb>''' oh, ok
:'''<tomeu>''' fortunately, they can vote by email later
:'''<tomeu>''' ok, should I go through the agenda items?
:'''<cjb>''' sure
:'''<walterbender>''' #start-meeting
:'''<SeanDaly>''' yes pls
:'''<walterbender>''' #topic cjb report on email list
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: no hyphen
:'''<walterbender>''' #startmeeting
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting started at 10:05 UTC. The chair is walterbender.
:'''<meeting>''' Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK
:'''<walterbender>''' #topic email list
:'''<cjb>''' ok, here's what I was able to come up with, don't know if anyone will like it :)
:'''<cjb>''' a) new list: slobs-members@. goes only to slobs.
* bernie waves
:'''<walterbender>''' ciao bernardo
* SeanDaly hi bernie
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: is there a b) ?
:'''<cjb>''' yes, moment
:'''<bernie>''' cjb: I have a counter-proposal: creating a teams@ list for all team leaders and slobs, and unsubscribing non-slobs from slobs@
:'''<cjb>''' bernie: wait for me to finish, though.
* walterbender is waiting for part b
:'''<cjb>''' b) slobs@ becomes the proper list for SLOBS business.
:'''<cjb>''' .. SLOBS business includes questions from the community about policy ..
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: for adding agenda items...
:'''<cjb>''' yeah!
:'''<walterbender>''' an open list, presumably
:'''<walterbender>''' seems orthogonal to Bernie's suggestion
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I thought we had said an agenda proposal went thru a SLOB?
:'''<cjb>''' yes. and, I think most of the mail currently on slobs@ can stay on that open list
* tomeu doesn't understand what team leaders have to do in all this
:'''<cjb>''' not everyone will want to subscribe to it
:'''<cjb>''' most of it will be organizational minutia, after all
* SeanDaly also would hesitate to add team leader layer...
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I guess the only question is whether we couldn't just use iaep for the same purpose
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: only for the reason I just gave
:'''<bernie>''' tomeu, SeanDaly: currently, we have almost all team leaders subscribed to slobs@. and it helps for coordination.
:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: how it helps to coordinate anything?
:'''<cjb>''' there may be people who want to read iaep@ and don't want to read boring financial details or policy questions
:'''<SeanDaly>''' bernie: ok but they are all on IAEP too, no?
:'''<walterbender>''' I am genrally in favor of fewer lists and more sunject-line tags
:'''<SeanDaly>''' maybe iaep with a subject slobs business?
:'''<walterbender>''' ^sun^sub
:'''<walterbender>''' [SLOBS]
:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: teams@ would not be open. it would be the same of the current slobs@, in my mind.
* SeanDaly imagines Mel reacting to phrase "would not be open" ;-)
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: what team business needs to be private? hypathetical, pelase>
:'''<walterbender>''' please?
:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: team coordinators are chosen by a criteria that is not too related to their suitability to be aware of confidential matters
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: we should probably ask the people on iaep whether they'd like that or not, if we go this route
:'''<tomeu>''' cjb: do you think we have sent too much administrative stuff already?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: I certainly agree governance minutiae boring for many, but then again, the day a complaint about e.g. finances comes in, financial discussions clear
:'''<cjb>''' tomeu: to iaep? no
-->| andresambrois (n=aa@r190-135-149-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<cjb>''' tomeu: but I'm talking about moving ~80% of SLOBs list traffic there
:'''<cjb>''' and it seems like that would be too much
:'''<tomeu>''' don't think we have much traffic in slobs
:'''<SeanDaly>''' slobs fairly low-volume in my view
:'''<cjb>''' I guess that's true
:'''<tomeu>''' also, while some admin stuff could be boring, the discussions that could ensure could be very interesting
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: the original motivation for my request for a private list was to keep the slobs traffic lower
:'''<tomeu>''' and chances are people would forget to forward to iaep and keep the discussion there
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: could you elaborate?
:'''<cjb>''' you mean, keep the slobs@ traffic lower?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: it is easy to ignore email with suitable [BORING SLOBS BUSINESS] subject tags :)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: less slobs traffic and less private list traffic both
:'''<cjb>''' ok
:'''<cjb>''' so, perhaps we have a MOTION
:'''<walterbender>''' Anyway, I think we are really trying to decide between a new list and using [TAGS] on iaep
:'''<tomeu>''' tags++
:'''<cjb>''' MOTION: close the slobs@ list to just SLOBs, move current slobs@ traffic to iaep@ with a [SLOBS] subject line tag where at all possible
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: second
:'''<walterbender>''' discussion?
* tomeu likes that motion as-is
:'''<cjb>''' we'll have to explain this well. people will hear the "you can't be on slobs@ part" and think it's a negative for transparency.
:'''<cjb>''' s/ part"/" part/
:'''<SeanDaly>''' discussion: we need to explain policy to bootees
:'''<cjb>''' bootees?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I'll try to explain it (and take the heat)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' bootee: somebody removed from list
:'''<cjb>''' oh :)
:'''<walterbender>''' any more discussion?
* SeanDaly not from me
:'''<cjb>''' I'm interested in what Mel and Adam think
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: me too. we will get their votes.
:'''<walterbender>''' (by email withing 96 hours?)
:'''<cjb>''' the problem with all voting now is that we'll pass it without them, and then they'll point out the giant flaw in our strategy :)
:'''<walterbender>''' (I hope my talk goes better than my typing)
:'''<cjb>''' would people be opposed to having all of us postpone our vote until they've had a chance to join in the discussion?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I am fine with it.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' or, could be amended
:'''<cjb>''' excellent. okay, I'd like to do that.
:'''<walterbender>''' we can vote on it first thing next week...
:'''<cjb>''' shall we move on for now, then, with that MOTION suitably transcribed?
:'''<walterbender>''' OK.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' ok
:'''<walterbender>''' #task write up the motion with the minutes
:'''<walterbender>''' next topic?
:'''<walterbender>''' #topic lists for teams
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: can you explain a bit more?
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: ping?
:'''<walterbender>''' friends, I am going to be called to the podium in a moment and Sean will need to take off.
:'''<walterbender>''' can I propose a #task?
:'''<cjb>''' ok. maybe that's our short meeting. :)
:'''<cjb>''' sure
:'''<walterbender>''' #task: bernie: write a note about your proposal
|<-- andresambrois has left freenode (Remote closed the connection)
:'''<walterbender>''' #task: carlo has a nice document re the next topic I can circulate (to IAEP with suitable [TAG] when I get back to Boston
:'''<walterbender>''' #task: I'll bug the DP for closure.
:'''<walterbender>''' end meeting?
:'''<tomeu>''' ok with me
:'''<SeanDaly>''' ok with me
* tomeu goes listen to the talk
:'''<walterbender>''' Sorry about the awkward timing...
:'''<cjb>''' np
:'''<walterbender>''' the conference gods weren't cooperating :(
* SeanDaly knows how much "fun" it is to miss a plane
:'''<walterbender>''' thanks for coming everyone. Same time next week.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' :-)
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: I'll tell you a Seymour/Piaget story some time :)
:'''<walterbender>''' ok.
:'''<walterbender>''' #endmeeting
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting finished at 10:29.
:'''<meeting>''' Logs available at http://meeting.laptop.org/
:'''<walterbender>''' FWIW, I may be a few minutes late to the SLOBs meeting. The conference is scheduled to end at 4, but it is running late. (I am the last talk.)
:'''<walterbender>''' But please get started without me.
|<-- sdziallas has left freenode ("Ex-Chat")
:'''<walterbender>''' I will definitely by about 15 - 20 minutes late.
-->| SeanDaly (n=chatzill@static-241102.xdsl.raiffeisen.net) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<cjb>''' morning.
:'''<tomeu>''' hi all
:'''<SeanDaly>''' hi Sean here
:'''<tomeu>''' SeanDaly: is walterbender speaking now?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I am in SFScon auditorium, Walter is up next
* tomeu is hidden in a hole coding
:'''<SeanDaly>''' Federico is onstage now re Zeitgeist
:'''<walterbender>''' looks like I am not up next... so I can start meeting and just break when I have to get on stage
* SeanDaly a bit nervous about getting my plane
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: the airport is 10 minutes away
:'''<walterbender>''' shall we have a quick meeting?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: my brain says no problem, my heart says 900 roros if I miss it
:'''<walterbender>''' OK. with me.
:'''<cjb>''' bernie: ping
:'''<cjb>''' someone able to poke Adam?
:'''<walterbender>''' mel cannot join us. nor Adam
:'''<tomeu>''' cjb: adam is traveling now
:'''<cjb>''' oh, ok
:'''<tomeu>''' fortunately, they can vote by email later
:'''<tomeu>''' ok, should I go through the agenda items?
:'''<cjb>''' sure
:'''<walterbender>''' #start-meeting
:'''<SeanDaly>''' yes pls
:'''<walterbender>''' #topic cjb report on email list
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: no hyphen
:'''<walterbender>''' #startmeeting
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting started at 10:05 UTC. The chair is walterbender.
:'''<meeting>''' Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK
:'''<walterbender>''' #topic email list
:'''<cjb>''' ok, here's what I was able to come up with, don't know if anyone will like it :)
:'''<cjb>''' a) new list: slobs-members@. goes only to slobs.
* bernie waves
:'''<walterbender>''' ciao bernardo
* SeanDaly hi bernie
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: is there a b) ?
:'''<cjb>''' yes, moment
:'''<bernie>''' cjb: I have a counter-proposal: creating a teams@ list for all team leaders and slobs, and unsubscribing non-slobs from slobs@
:'''<cjb>''' bernie: wait for me to finish, though.
* walterbender is waiting for part b
:'''<cjb>''' b) slobs@ becomes the proper list for SLOBS business.
:'''<cjb>''' .. SLOBS business includes questions from the community about policy ..
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: for adding agenda items...
:'''<cjb>''' yeah!
:'''<walterbender>''' an open list, presumably
:'''<walterbender>''' seems orthogonal to Bernie's suggestion
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I thought we had said an agenda proposal went thru a SLOB?
:'''<cjb>''' yes. and, I think most of the mail currently on slobs@ can stay on that open list
* tomeu doesn't understand what team leaders have to do in all this
:'''<cjb>''' not everyone will want to subscribe to it
:'''<cjb>''' most of it will be organizational minutia, after all
* SeanDaly also would hesitate to add team leader layer...
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I guess the only question is whether we couldn't just use iaep for the same purpose
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: only for the reason I just gave
:'''<bernie>''' tomeu, SeanDaly: currently, we have almost all team leaders subscribed to slobs@. and it helps for coordination.
:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: how it helps to coordinate anything?
:'''<cjb>''' there may be people who want to read iaep@ and don't want to read boring financial details or policy questions
:'''<SeanDaly>''' bernie: ok but they are all on IAEP too, no?
:'''<walterbender>''' I am genrally in favor of fewer lists and more sunject-line tags
:'''<SeanDaly>''' maybe iaep with a subject slobs business?
:'''<walterbender>''' ^sun^sub
:'''<walterbender>''' [SLOBS]
:'''<bernie>''' SeanDaly: teams@ would not be open. it would be the same of the current slobs@, in my mind.
* SeanDaly imagines Mel reacting to phrase "would not be open" ;-)
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: what team business needs to be private? hypathetical, pelase>
:'''<walterbender>''' please?
:'''<tomeu>''' bernie: team coordinators are chosen by a criteria that is not too related to their suitability to be aware of confidential matters
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: we should probably ask the people on iaep whether they'd like that or not, if we go this route
:'''<tomeu>''' cjb: do you think we have sent too much administrative stuff already?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: I certainly agree governance minutiae boring for many, but then again, the day a complaint about e.g. finances comes in, financial discussions clear
:'''<cjb>''' tomeu: to iaep? no
-->| andresambrois (n=aa@r190-135-149-15.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) has joined #sugar-meeting
:'''<cjb>''' tomeu: but I'm talking about moving ~80% of SLOBs list traffic there
:'''<cjb>''' and it seems like that would be too much
:'''<tomeu>''' don't think we have much traffic in slobs
:'''<SeanDaly>''' slobs fairly low-volume in my view
:'''<cjb>''' I guess that's true
:'''<tomeu>''' also, while some admin stuff could be boring, the discussions that could ensure could be very interesting
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: the original motivation for my request for a private list was to keep the slobs traffic lower
:'''<tomeu>''' and chances are people would forget to forward to iaep and keep the discussion there
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: could you elaborate?
:'''<cjb>''' you mean, keep the slobs@ traffic lower?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: it is easy to ignore email with suitable [BORING SLOBS BUSINESS] subject tags :)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: less slobs traffic and less private list traffic both
:'''<cjb>''' ok
:'''<cjb>''' so, perhaps we have a MOTION
:'''<walterbender>''' Anyway, I think we are really trying to decide between a new list and using [TAGS] on iaep
:'''<tomeu>''' tags++
:'''<cjb>''' MOTION: close the slobs@ list to just SLOBs, move current slobs@ traffic to iaep@ with a [SLOBS] subject line tag where at all possible
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: second
:'''<walterbender>''' discussion?
* tomeu likes that motion as-is
:'''<cjb>''' we'll have to explain this well. people will hear the "you can't be on slobs@ part" and think it's a negative for transparency.
:'''<cjb>''' s/ part"/" part/
:'''<SeanDaly>''' discussion: we need to explain policy to bootees
:'''<cjb>''' bootees?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I'll try to explain it (and take the heat)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' bootee: somebody removed from list
:'''<cjb>''' oh :)
:'''<walterbender>''' any more discussion?
* SeanDaly not from me
:'''<cjb>''' I'm interested in what Mel and Adam think
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: me too. we will get their votes.
:'''<walterbender>''' (by email withing 96 hours?)
:'''<cjb>''' the problem with all voting now is that we'll pass it without them, and then they'll point out the giant flaw in our strategy :)
:'''<walterbender>''' (I hope my talk goes better than my typing)
:'''<cjb>''' would people be opposed to having all of us postpone our vote until they've had a chance to join in the discussion?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I am fine with it.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' or, could be amended
:'''<cjb>''' excellent. okay, I'd like to do that.
:'''<walterbender>''' we can vote on it first thing next week...
:'''<cjb>''' shall we move on for now, then, with that MOTION suitably transcribed?
:'''<walterbender>''' OK.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' ok
:'''<walterbender>''' #task write up the motion with the minutes
:'''<walterbender>''' next topic?
:'''<walterbender>''' #topic lists for teams
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: can you explain a bit more?
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: ping?
:'''<walterbender>''' friends, I am going to be called to the podium in a moment and Sean will need to take off.
:'''<walterbender>''' can I propose a #task?
:'''<cjb>''' ok. maybe that's our short meeting. :)
:'''<cjb>''' sure
:'''<walterbender>''' #task: bernie: write a note about your proposal
|<-- andresambrois has left freenode (Remote closed the connection)
:'''<walterbender>''' #task: carlo has a nice document re the next topic I can circulate (to IAEP with suitable [TAG] when I get back to Boston
:'''<walterbender>''' #task: I'll bug the DP for closure.
:'''<walterbender>''' end meeting?
:'''<tomeu>''' ok with me
:'''<SeanDaly>''' ok with me
* tomeu goes listen to the talk
:'''<walterbender>''' Sorry about the awkward timing...
:'''<cjb>''' np
:'''<walterbender>''' the conference gods weren't cooperating :(
* SeanDaly knows how much "fun" it is to miss a plane
:'''<walterbender>''' thanks for coming everyone. Same time next week.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' :-)
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: I'll tell you a Seymour/Piaget story some time :)
:'''<walterbender>''' ok.
:'''<walterbender>''' #endmeeting
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting finished at 10:29.
:'''<meeting>''' Logs available at http://meeting.laptop.org/