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Oversight Board/2010/Meeting Log-2010-05-14 (view source)
Revision as of 12:29, 14 May 2010
, 12:29, 14 May 2010Created page with ':'''#startmeeting''' :'''<meeting>''' Meeting started at 11:10 UTC. The chair is walterbender. :Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK :'''<walterbender>''' #...'
:'''#startmeeting'''
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting started at 11:10 UTC. The chair is walterbender.
:Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK
:'''<walterbender>''' #TOPIC Trademark
:Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions.
:I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' we'll need to follow up
:'''<walterbender>''' Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros?
:'''<cjb>''' no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet
:* walterbender heard that bernie may join us
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives
:'''<walterbender>''' In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone.
:We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy.
:'''<walterbender>''' there may be others I don't recall.
:hi bernie
:* SeanDaly greets bernie
:'''<walterbender>''' #action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting
:Shall we move on to the main topic?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond
:'''<bernie__>''' @*#! damn the university is firewalled
:[INFO] 2 matches for “bernie”: [bernie, bernie__]
:* bernie__ is using a web chat
:'''<SeanDaly>''' aside from label program
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie__: tor is your friend :)
:* mchua_afk apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog
:--> $dayjob_unexpectedness
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,.
:hi mel
:'''#topic vacancies'''
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit)
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' :D
:'''<cjb>''' CanoeBerry: I think it's this one: http://activitycentral.org/
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' haven't heard back from gnomies yet though
:'''<cjb>''' at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change
:'''<SeanDaly>''' but OLPC-A is reviewing
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean? I'm talking about dfarning's site
:unless dfarning is also making a press release
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: no sorry I'm confused
:'''<cjb>''' np
:I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there
:'''<cjb>''' yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large....
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities
:'''<walterbender>''' AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities...
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: he means competition for ASLO
:'''<cjb>''' but I can't think of any other friction
:'''<walterbender>''' I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen
:seems like a win for us
:'''<bernie__>''' my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all.
:'''<cjb>''' I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site.
:'''<walterbender>''' But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate.
:'''<bernie__>''' DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team
:'''<cjb>''' sure :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him
:'''<walterbender>''' Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss.
:related to developer resources
:'''<bernie__>''' the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/
:'''<walterbender>''' we have a specific issue and a meta topic...
:'''<bernie__>''' +1 for moving on
:'''<walterbender>''' the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions
:the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies
:and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with
:the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90
:(We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead
:'''<bernie__>''' I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2)
:'''<bernie__>''' CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-(
:'''<rgs_>''' (can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?)
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts..
:'''<bernie__>''' rgs_: yes
:rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-)
:'''<rgs_>''' what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture
:'''<bernie__>''' CanoeBerry: dunno...
:'''<walterbender>''' another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck.
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments.
:'''<bernie__>''' walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-(
:'''<SeanDaly>''' a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions.
:SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him.
:'''<rgs_>''' I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users)
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: cool!
:'''<SeanDaly>''' rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments...
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said
:'''<walterbender>''' someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users.
:'''<rgs_>''' k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever!
:'''<cjb>''' yeah
:'''<bernie__>''' rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair.
:'''<rgs_>''' (that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task)
:'''<cjb>''' it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :)
:'''<walterbender>''' well maybe have a solution of (1) :)
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: you get my vote
:'''<SeanDaly>''' rgs_: i'm in awe
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers...
:rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :)
:'''<rgs_>''' translation bots are a commodity nowadays :)
:* bernie__ is biased (rgs is my boss)
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: probably yes :)
:walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL
:'''<bernie__>''' I guess I should abstain from voting on this
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting.
:'''<rgs_>''' and wants to cooperate in any possible way
:'''<cjb>''' bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote
:'''<walterbender>''' this raises one of the meta issues...
:'''<bernie__>''' thanks
:'''<rgs_>''' so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours
:'''<walterbender>''' I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules).
:but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input.
:'''<bernie__>''' the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast.
:'''<walterbender>''' I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas
:In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community
:'''<bernie__>''' walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1
:walterbender: same for silbe
:walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already)
:'''<walterbender>''' and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes.
:'''<cjb>''' sounds good
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed!
:bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :)
:'''<walterbender>''' CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :)
:'''<bernie__>''' walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position...
:It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project.
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps?
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: +1
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: you mean if more than one candidate?
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: but we have to be fast
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months
:'''<cjb>''' so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable
:bernie__: two-week election, perhaps?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting
:'''<bernie__>''' I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week.
:'''<cjb>''' bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks
:'''<SeanDaly>''' we could consider advertising for talent
:'''<cjb>''' bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think
:SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide
:a
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles.
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho
:cjb: review != ack
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates?
:bernie__: *nod*
:'''<walterbender>''' seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' ok
:'''<cjb>''' I'm happy to run the election
:if that helps
:although I haven't set up selectricity before
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: +1
:'''<cjb>''' I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously..
:'''<cjb>''' CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :)
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' how about 10+10 days?
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member
:CanoeBerry: sure, good idea
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee
:'''<cjb>''' ah hah
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall
:'''<cjb>''' excellent
:I'll mail him
:'''<cjb>''' shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback?
:'''<walterbender>''' #action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' CJB needs a pretty dress too.
:Sorry ;)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording
:So, what about Release Manager?
:I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized.
:He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90
:This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;)
:'''<walterbender>''' Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility.
:I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up...
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues..
:'''<walterbender>''' In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback.
:?
:* bernie is back
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Time Check?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' lunchtime? tea time?
:'''<bernie>''' so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead?
:'''<walterbender>''' we need to end...
:'''<bernie>''' cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please?
:'''<walterbender>''' any further ideas re RM?
:'''<cjb>''' bernie: yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time.
:(that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.)
:'''<bernie>''' cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream.
:alsroot: maybe you could do it?
:because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry.
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead
:and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM?
:any other ideas?
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' great ideas.
:pretty dress was not entirely a joke.
:honoring our roles, making them attractive..
:'''<walterbender>''' speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead...
:maybe that should be a motion
:'''<cjb>''' hear hear :)
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' YES
:'''<SeanDaly>''' hark
:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: +1
:'''<walterbender>''' They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities.
:'''<walterbender>''' so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities
:shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' the primaries at least!
:* dogi waves ...
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' dogi: you around tonight at the party etc?
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team
:'''<alsroot>''' bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear
:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: +1
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours
:alsroot: I agree
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: great
:* rgs_ ---> Caacupe
:'''<walterbender>''' ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today.
:thanks everyone.
:'''#endmeeting'''
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting finished at 12:16.
:Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.log.20100514_1110.html
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting started at 11:10 UTC. The chair is walterbender.
:Commands Available: #TOPIC, #IDEA, #ACTION, #AGREED, #LINK
:'''<walterbender>''' #TOPIC Trademark
:Just want to mention that I haven't heard back from Karen/SFC about our revisions.
:I suspect we are OK, but we should remain open to any needed tweaks.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' we'll need to follow up
:'''<walterbender>''' Was anyone privy to feedback from the distros?
:'''<cjb>''' no, but I suspect we haven't told any of them yet
:* walterbender heard that bernie may join us
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I think Mel was going to ping Fedora
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I want to contact the distros & start explainings of objectives
:'''<walterbender>''' In any case, I think we are in a good place. Thanks for hanging in there everyone.
:We also have a few open requests re trademark we should process. The one I recall is a request from .py. We had given them a conditional OK pending the resolution of our policy.
:'''<walterbender>''' there may be others I don't recall.
:hi bernie
:* SeanDaly greets bernie
:'''<walterbender>''' #action Walter to compile a list of outstanding TM requests to review at the next meeting
:Shall we move on to the main topic?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: dfarning had mailed some weeks ago asking if his site didn't infringe. I didn't see any myself but what we need to do is define a procedure (even temporary) to review requests & respond
:'''<bernie__>''' @*#! damn the university is firewalled
:[INFO] 2 matches for “bernie”: [bernie, bernie__]
:* bernie__ is using a web chat
:'''<SeanDaly>''' aside from label program
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie__: tor is your friend :)
:* mchua_afk apologizes, got pulled into a sudden meeting with boss's boss, will have to read this one in backlog
:--> $dayjob_unexpectedness
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly, all: if you knw of any requests, please forward them to me so I can build a comprehensive list for our review. Presumably it can become a regular (quick) action item at our meetings,.
:hi mel
:'''#topic vacancies'''
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' walterbender: did i miss dfarning's site we were supposed to review?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: and, a good indicator of questions the FAQ should answer (the one I volunteered to edit)
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: OK. between press releases :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' :D
:'''<cjb>''' CanoeBerry: I think it's this one: http://activitycentral.org/
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly wrote a very nice PR last night to go out on Monday.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' haven't heard back from gnomies yet though
:'''<cjb>''' at the moment they mention Sugar a lot but I can't see any links to sugarlabs.org, so that's probably something to change
:'''<SeanDaly>''' but OLPC-A is reviewing
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: well, we don't have to worry about people mistaking the graphics for Sugar style on that site :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: theirs on Monday will be first PR to mention Sugar
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: OLPC, you mean? I'm talking about dfarning's site
:unless dfarning is also making a press release
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: no sorry I'm confused
:'''<cjb>''' np
:I was looking at http://activitycentral.org/development
:'''<SeanDaly>''' I've wanted to tell dfarning that I didn't like the name of the site. But that's neither here nor there
:'''<cjb>''' yeah, I don't think there's much we could do about that :)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: dfarning alluded to "inherent friction" between activity central and Sugar Labs... not clear what he is referring to... perhaps we can invite him to brief us next meeting.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' a marketplace makes sense when the market is large... when it's 2 Activities, it's not large....
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: there'll be friction from their hosting/encouragement of non-free activities
:'''<walterbender>''' AFAIK, he is setting up a parallel portal to ASLO for non-FOSS activities...
:'''<SeanDaly>''' walterbender: he means competition for ASLO
:'''<cjb>''' but I can't think of any other friction
:'''<walterbender>''' I don't see any conflict or friction with that plan, but I am happy to listen
:seems like a win for us
:'''<bernie__>''' my personal view is that there are already 3-4 different sites for downloading sugar activities. one more does not bother me at all.
:'''<cjb>''' I think there's conflict/friction because he's doing something we don't encourage, which means we can't encourage people to use his site.
:'''<walterbender>''' But let's plan on inviting him to talk with us rather than speculate.
:'''<bernie__>''' DISCLAIMER: I'm helping dfarning with mentoring his development team
:'''<cjb>''' sure :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' if dfarning can arrange developer resources, more power to him
:'''<walterbender>''' Shall we move on. We have an important topic to discuss.
:related to developer resources
:'''<bernie__>''' the other activity sites I'm referring to are: http://wiki.laptop.org/ http://xoplanet.blogspot.com/ http://ceibaljam.org/ and, of course, http://activities.sugarlabs.org/
:'''<walterbender>''' we have a specific issue and a meta topic...
:'''<bernie__>''' +1 for moving on
:'''<walterbender>''' the specific issue is that we have 3 vacancies in critical positions
:the meta topic is how we address filling vacancies
:and perhaps a meta meta topic is why we have vacancies to begin with
:the vacancies are (1) Deployment Team lead; (2) Development Team lead; and (3) Release Manager for 0.90
:(We are still missing a few other positions, such as Finance Director.)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' it could even be argued that we don't have a Curriculum team lead
:'''<bernie__>''' I'm mostly worried for (2). Deployments and other contributors need a responsive upstream to work with. This is critical to our success.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' aside for later: i'd like to know more about http://xoplanet.blogspot.com
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: I agree, but I think that (1) is a major reason we have trouble with (2)
:'''<bernie__>''' CanoeBerry: it's where doom, ninja zero and other goodies come from. Teachers asked us to ban it with the web filter :-(
:'''<rgs_>''' (can questions be asked by non SLOB members during the meeting?)
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' bernie: let me know who runs it, regardless of the sexually-tinged adverts..
:'''<bernie__>''' rgs_: yes
:rgs_: especially from someone who knows a lot about (1) :-)
:'''<rgs_>''' what is expected from 1? (in terms of hours, responsabilities, etc.).. at least the big picture
:'''<bernie__>''' CanoeBerry: dunno...
:'''<walterbender>''' another aside for later: bernie: is the planet feed down? It seems stuck.
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: I suppose goals might be (a) to convene a weekly meeting, (b) to have attendance by representatives of the N largest Sugar deployments at the meeting, (c) to successfully shape the rest of Sugar with their input
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: well, I think a big frustration for the development team has been a lack of any systemic process for soliciting feedback from deployments.
:'''<bernie__>''' walterbender: ugh. I'll look into it this afternoon. please remind me. (now I'm supposed to give a class and my colleagues are filling in for me :-(
:'''<SeanDaly>''' a pity tomeu is travelling today, the vacancies problem is near & dear to his heart
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: so I think that while we have some processes in place (and an on-going debate about how to improve them) without feedback from our users, we are really not in a good position to make decisions.
:SeanDaly: he will read the log and comment... we'll not settle these issues without him.
:'''<rgs_>''' I'd love to volunteer.. although I am not sure our deployment is the most representative (right now 5K user, by the end of the year we will have 10K Sugar users)
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: cool!
:'''<SeanDaly>''' rgs_: we also believe that deployments have dev resources which ideally could be in close contact with us
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: the size of the deployment is not the issue; it is a matter of outreach to all the deployments...
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: I am already taking a defacto sabatical from TA :p
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: I don't think we need the most representative deployment to host the meetings, we.. right, what walterbender said
:'''<walterbender>''' someone from the LA world would be ideal at this stage, since that is so representative of most of our users.
:'''<rgs_>''' k, I count with your guidance in order to make deployments collaborate in making Sugar the best learning platform ever!
:'''<cjb>''' yeah
:'''<bernie__>''' rgs_: if, at a later point, someone from a more representative deployment steps up and wants to coordinate the Deployment Team, you can always pass them the chair.
:'''<rgs_>''' (that is.. in case you would like me to help out with that task)
:'''<cjb>''' it would be fairly reasonable to host the meetings in Spanish :)
:'''<walterbender>''' well maybe have a solution of (1) :)
:'''<cjb>''' rgs_: you get my vote
:'''<SeanDaly>''' rgs_: i'm in awe
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: more than fairly reasonable... they should be in the language of the deployers...
:rgs_: are you going to get in trouble with Cecilia, taking on yet more responsibilities :)
:'''<rgs_>''' translation bots are a commodity nowadays :)
:* bernie__ is biased (rgs is my boss)
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: probably yes :)
:walterbender: cjb : everyone: Paraguay Educa is aware of the missing positions in SL
:'''<bernie__>''' I guess I should abstain from voting on this
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: let's discuss the details after the meeting.
:'''<rgs_>''' and wants to cooperate in any possible way
:'''<cjb>''' bernie__: didn't mean a literal vote
:'''<walterbender>''' this raises one of the meta issues...
:'''<bernie__>''' thanks
:'''<rgs_>''' so, if we can help... we'll be very happy to allocate a few hours
:'''<walterbender>''' I presume at some level, SLOBs appoints/approves Teams (I believe we say so in our governance rules).
:but we don't discuss the mechanism by which we get input.
:'''<bernie__>''' the position that worries me the most is (2) Without a functional Development Team we're toast.
:'''<walterbender>''' I was talking with alsroot about the Developer Team position and he had some interesting ideas
:In my mind, that position is critical to determining the milieu of the developer community
:'''<bernie__>''' walterbender: alsroot would definitely get my +1
:walterbender: same for silbe
:walterbender: (however, they both seem overworked already)
:'''<walterbender>''' and it would perhaps be useful for potential team leaders to write a few paragraphs describing their POV re development and processes.
:'''<cjb>''' sounds good
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' rgs_: such a shame you're missing realness.org in the end, where many of these issues will be discussed!
:bernie has us tempted, when he said you were coming 10 days back :)
:'''<walterbender>''' CanoeBerry: he'll be sending his eyes and ears in the form of Bernardo :)
:'''<bernie__>''' walterbender: I asked people from uruguay if someone would be willing to maintain parts of sugar
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: I think we need more maintainers, but I was thinking of the Developer Team leader position...
:It is a critical position in terms of how the developer community (and upstream and downstream) view our project.
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: we could have an explicit election for it, perhaps?
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: +1
:'''<SeanDaly>''' cjb: you mean if more than one candidate?
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: but we have to be fast
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: announcing an election might generate more candidates :)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: I am not sure if we need that level of formality, but a discussion on devel would be great
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: we can't afford to wait one month to unstuck development
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: I think the formality might help bring out candidates and attention to their platforms/plans
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: currently, dozens and dozens of patches are sitting unreviewed in trac or in the mailing list... some have been bitrotting for 4-5 months
:'''<cjb>''' so while I agree it's not necessary, I think it might actually be desirable
:bernie__: two-week election, perhaps?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' here's an idea I hd raised recently in a marketing meeting
:'''<bernie__>''' I'm +1 on an election if we can manage to vote by next week.
:'''<cjb>''' bernie__: if we've been waiting 5 months, another two weeks can't be awful :)
:'''<SeanDaly>''' the banner ad we ran last December had over half a million impressions in 30 days... almost all of which were on FOSS-themed sites
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: we could wait more if someone (you?) could fill-in the position for these two weeks
:'''<SeanDaly>''' we could consider advertising for talent
:'''<cjb>''' bernie__: Quozl's been doing a nice job of reviewing everything that's come up on devel@, I think
:SeanDaly: that's an interesting ide
:a
:'''<walterbender>''' SeanDaly: for sure... but it is hard to imagine a complete outside stepping into any of these three roles.
:'''<bernie__>''' cjb: Quozl would also make a great development team lead imho
:cjb: review != ack
:'''<cjb>''' SeanDaly: perhaps a fallback for if an election doesn't gain any candidates?
:bernie__: *nod*
:'''<walterbender>''' seems like are converging on consensus around a quick election.
:'''<SeanDaly>''' ok
:'''<cjb>''' I'm happy to run the election
:if that helps
:although I haven't set up selectricity before
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: +1
:'''<cjb>''' I'll be at mako's place tonight, could perhaps get instruction from him
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' how quick is realistic? grooming candidates is key obviously..
:'''<cjb>''' CanoeBerry: a week for nominations followed by two weeks of voting?
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: that part is pretty easy... and I think Mako may know a thing or two about it :)
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' how about 10+10 days?
:'''<cjb>''' walterbender: the part I'm wondering about is things like how to distribute a token to each SL member
:CanoeBerry: sure, good idea
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: we have a list of email addresses already compiled by our election committee
:'''<cjb>''' ah hah
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: lfarone maintains it, as I recall
:'''<cjb>''' excellent
:I'll mail him
:'''<cjb>''' shall I prepare a mail announcing the existence of the election and what it hopes to achieve, and send to SLOBS for feedback?
:'''<walterbender>''' #action CJB will organize a 10-day campaign followed by a 10-day election for a new Developer Team lead.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' CJB needs a pretty dress too.
:Sorry ;)
:'''<walterbender>''' cjb: ping alsroot too as I think he had good ideas about the wording
:So, what about Release Manager?
:I had been hoping we'd have found a shadow for Erikos but one never materialized.
:He is willing to mentor whomever takes on 0.90
:This is pretty important to resolve ASAP as we need to prepare a schedule.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Perhaps Dogi will help reverse the German brain drain, hrh ;)
:'''<walterbender>''' Erikos has been very professional about our releases, which I think has given us some real credibility.
:I hadn't heard that Dogi or anyone else had stepped up...
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Must find Dogi to discuss these wider issues..
:'''<walterbender>''' In terms of process, I don't think RM is a position we should elect, but one that is appointed based on feedback.
:?
:* bernie is back
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' Time Check?
:'''<SeanDaly>''' lunchtime? tea time?
:'''<bernie>''' so we'll have to wait 20 days for the new developer team lead?
:'''<walterbender>''' we need to end...
:'''<bernie>''' cjb: can you fill-in until we have a new one elected please?
:'''<walterbender>''' any further ideas re RM?
:'''<cjb>''' bernie: yes. I don't think it's realistic to expect us to get one in less time.
:(that was yes to the first question -- not sure about me filling in, I'll have my hands busy just organizing an election.)
:'''<bernie>''' cjb: it's really urgent for us to be able to work with a responsive upstream.
:alsroot: maybe you could do it?
:because I have a stake on it, I offered to maintain all modules in the 0.88 branch until we find maintainers. I cannot take more than this at this time, sorry.
:'''<walterbender>''' bernie: maybe part of cjb's announcement is a request on devel for a interim lead
:and maybe the 1st task of the new lead is to appoint a RM?
:any other ideas?
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' great ideas.
:pretty dress was not entirely a joke.
:honoring our roles, making them attractive..
:'''<walterbender>''' speaking of honoring our roles, I want to let the record show that we, the SL community, greatly appreciate the work that Erikos and Tomeu did these past two years as RM and Dev Team lead...
:maybe that should be a motion
:'''<cjb>''' hear hear :)
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' YES
:'''<SeanDaly>''' hark
:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: +1
:'''<walterbender>''' They have given us a rigor and discipline to provide a solid platform for the development and deployment communities.
:'''<walterbender>''' so we have our work cut out for us. CJB, let me know if I can help; rgs_ let's talk about deployment team responsibilities
:shall we aim for another meeting next week? We should be well into the campaign by then.
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' the primaries at least!
:* dogi waves ...
:'''<CanoeBerry>''' dogi: you around tonight at the party etc?
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: can we talk about deployment team responsibilities later on (like in 5 hours). I have to go to Caacupe for a few meetings with our tech support team
:'''<alsroot>''' bernie: about RM? I think it would be more useful to discuss this question when situation w/ dev lead will be more clear
:'''<bernie>''' walterbender: +1
:'''<walterbender>''' rgs_: catch up with you in 5 hours
:alsroot: I agree
:'''<rgs_>''' walterbender: great
:* rgs_ ---> Caacupe
:'''<walterbender>''' ok... I think we have gotten as far as we can today.
:thanks everyone.
:'''#endmeeting'''
:'''<meeting>''' Meeting finished at 12:16.
:Logs available at http://me.etin.gs/sugar-meeting/sugar-meeting.log.20100514_1110.html