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Talk:Features/Write to journal anytime (view source)

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See [[Design Team/Meetings]].
 
See [[Design Team/Meetings]].
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* [[#Log from Design Team Meeting 08 January 2012|08 January 2012]]
 
* [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-03-13T15:05:59 13 March 2011]
 
* [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-03-13T15:05:59 13 March 2011]
 
* [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-02-27 27 February 2011]
 
* [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-02-27 27 February 2011]
 
* [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-02-20T16:30:07#i_2633453 20 February 2011]
 
* [http://meeting.sugarlabs.org/sugar-meeting/meetings/2011-02-20T16:30:07#i_2633453 20 February 2011]
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 +
== Log from Design Team Meeting 08 January 2012 ==
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:'''walterbender''': hi JT4sugar
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:'''JT4sugar''': Hi Walter
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:'''satellit_''': listening
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:'''walterbender''': waiting for Christian
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:'''erikos''': is here
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: read your proposal and added a link to mine
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: (see email)
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:'''walterbender''': while we are waiting for Christian, please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Write_to_journal_anytime#Detailed_Description
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: I added a link to your mock up from ^^
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: so you have your code snippet for ^^
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:'''walterbender''': ^so^do
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: I might have it somewhere but have to first locate it
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: I did code it for the mockup indeed
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:'''walterbender''': I wrote the code for the Entry Alert, but didn't do the toolbar integration...
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:'''walterbender''': can we reach consensus about a few points to ground the discussion?
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:'''walterbender''': (1) that we don't want a modal interface for writing to the journal?
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:'''erikos''': hmm, i don't see the modal alert as a too bad option
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:'''walterbender''': (2) that we don't need to display the entire entry as most of it is not human-editable
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: I really think it is a big problem for the use case: taking notes while you work on things
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:'''JT4sugar''': walterbender, I like the look of Simon's alternative. Could description be renamed to reflection? Think this is the direction working towards not notes
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:'''walterbender''': and #2 is problematic because it means the activity is almost entirely obscured
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:'''erikos''': I agree on (2) that if we go down the approach sketched in the wiki page (yours or mine) we do not need all the entries of the detail view
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:'''erikos''': JT4sugar: it is named description because that is the name in the Journal as well
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: but maybe we could add a star for favorite to whatever widget we use
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: what is your argument in favor of modal?
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: what I like about the approach sketched from Christian is that the relation to the Journal is clear
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:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: +1 for "refection"
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: that is made clear by #2, not #1, is it not?
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: if I click on the 'take notes'-button in the activity or the details button of an entry in teh Journal we always display the same page/alert
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:'''erikos''': I like that consistancy
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: I would like to change the latter as well, but not for 0.96
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: change the latter in which way?
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: we have nice mockups of expanding the detail view in place in the journal list view
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:'''walterbender''': much better, I think as it keeps a context...
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:'''walterbender''': so I wouldn't want to preserve consistency with something we may be changing anyway
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:'''walterbender''': plus the use case is different
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:'''walterbender''': I don't disagree with the need for some reference to Journal
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:'''JT4sugar''': erikos, Yes but in a writing sense you are trying to prompt reflection that is aking for more than a description? the key in the classroom is condtioning this reflective action.Can we rename field? Or create new one?
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:'''walterbender''': hence my use of a Journal icon
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:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: I think description in the Journal entry could be changed to reflection as well
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:'''erikos''': JT4sugar: that is what I meant, if you think 'reflection' is a better name then 'description' it should be changed in both places
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:'''JT4sugar''': walterbender, Can you explain what exactly "Modal" refers to?
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:'''JT4sugar''': erikos, Gotcha
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:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: you are unable to do anything else until you take action in that window
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: ok, maybe inline editing will be a nice thing, but we have to try that out first
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: not sure it is the golden solution
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:'''JT4sugar''': OK
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: so, that we change to inline editing is an assumption as well
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: agreed... just bringing it up as one reason I am not wedded to replicating the detail view in this instance
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:'''erikos''': ok
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: what we should take into account as well is the usability with touch
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: as this will come sooner or later
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:'''walterbender''': replication is just one mechanism for being referential... our crack design team can come up with others
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: sure
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes... we could add a virtual keyboard to your widget
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: having hacked on a XO-3.0 for 48 hours, lots of observations... for another meeting perhaps
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: but fundamentally, Sugar is not a bad experience
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:'''walterbender''': wonders where Christian is... will send him email
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: yeah, a lot of things are already in place, indeed
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:'''walterbender''': this was his suggested meeting time
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: I thin khe forgot
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:'''walterbender''': sent him an email
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:'''walterbender''': let's assume we go with some sort of widget on the toolbar or an alert as per the mockups...
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:'''walterbender''': what are the advantages/disadvantages of showing the entire description (reflection) field?
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:'''walterbender''': advantage is you see you past work/context for your new reflection
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:'''erikos''': yeah, lets use the time to discuss this a bit
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:'''walterbender''': disadvantage is that it takes up more room
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:'''walterbender''': and it may be more info than you need at the moment
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:'''walterbender''': I keep going back to commit messages as a model
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:'''walterbender''': you don't need to see the old ones to write a new one
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:'''erikos''': so you would want to appaned it?
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:'''walterbender''': it is a separate activity to review them collectively
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:'''erikos''': maybe an example can help:
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:'''erikos''': It is Saturday, I do start writing my essay for Monday,
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:'''erikos''': before closing the activity I add a description.
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:'''erikos''': On Sunday I resume the Jurnal entry, write another paragraph,
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: that is the old model
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:'''walterbender''': the new model is note taking in a more continuous fashion
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:'''erikos''': before I close the activity I want to edit the description
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:'''walterbender''': I decide to use this picture instead of that one, so I make a note of why at the time of the decision
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: well, it happens inside the activity
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: whether at the end of the session or during you can not really control up to the user
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:'''walterbender''': it is more of a continuous monologue of decisions while using the activity
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:'''JT4sugar''': Understand we are trying to get in next release but in a long term vision kind of way would there be any way this could be combined with chat like abilities that would allow a teacher to pose a question into the "Reflection Box" that then child reflects on and is captured this way? Chat like functionality would allow for peer reflection or individual with a journaling/diary feel as well
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes... but we want to encourage more rather than less writing and reflecting
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:'''walterbender''': JT4sugar: that could be a nice use of the alert mechansim
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: I have a skewed world-view... everything seen through the eyes of Turtle Art
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: hmmm, but then it would be like leaving messages
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes...
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:'''walterbender''': lots of commit messages
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: so we would need to stamp it maybe to make clear
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:'''walterbender''': stamp as in timestamp?
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:'''erikos''': or at least show them in a bubble
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:'''walterbender''': that's OK
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: yes
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:'''walterbender''': +1 to timestamps
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:'''erikos''': so you somehow have a history inside the activity entry
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: this is why I was leaning more towards the UI I had mocked up... more of a short message model
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:'''erikos''': this is a bit like versions...;p
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:'''walterbender''': well... more like a commit log
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:'''walterbender''': if we had versions... it would fit nicely
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:'''erikos''': sure
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:'''walterbender''': but I am mostly concerned about making it easy to add reflections... path of least resistance
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:'''walterbender''': which is why I am almost tempted to have the alert or widget always present if the Activity toolbar is open
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:'''erikos''': ok, so let's assume we would do the approach, add 'messages', display them in bubbles and add timestamps
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:'''walterbender''': to me it is more important than changing the activity name
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:'''walterbender''': maybe flip them... that message entry "bubble" is always available and the title entry is invoked with a button
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:'''erikos''': hmm, i think the title is important too
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:'''walterbender''': it is important, but not something you change as often
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:'''erikos''': but as we reomved the keep button, I think we have space for adding a 'message' field
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: in a manner such as your widget...
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:'''erikos''': the title entry could be shorter as well
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: no, maybe directly on the toolbar
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:'''walterbender''': I guess what I am saying is that by default, the widget should be open...
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: yes, understood
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: do you really think there is room for both?
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:'''walterbender''': not in Turtle Art, but that may be exceptional
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:'''walterbender''': I could rework how I do my toolbars
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:'''erikos''': in TA you have the exports as well, right?
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:'''walterbender''': lots of different types of exports and imports
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:'''erikos''': ok
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:'''walterbender''': but I could put them on a submenu
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:'''erikos''': I could imagine as well the activity toolbar having the height doubled
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: that is sort of what I had in mind
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:'''erikos''': to give more room
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:'''walterbender''': the widget always expanded
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:'''erikos''': would like to sketch that now to show walter
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: actually, this raises an issue I encountered with the XO-3.0
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:'''walterbender''': the slightly smaller screen meant that many activity toolbars went off the end...
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: so either the widget expanded by default: for example: I click on the activity toolbar to expand it and it somes up like in my screenshot
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: or making it double the size by default and rearrange the items
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:'''walterbender''': I think that should wrap to an double-height toolbar
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: ahh, the screen is smaller ok
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:'''walterbender''': we could make that happen by default instead of the pull-down menu???
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:'''walterbender''': but that is outside the scope of 0.96
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:'''walterbender''': but I think a double-sized activity toolbar would not break anything and would make this current issue easier to address
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:'''walterbender''': so the buttons an activity adds beyond the defaults would go on the bottom row?
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:'''JT4sugar''': If height doubled would that open up room for more buttons/functionality(for post 0.96 work)? If so is that where the Chat like functionality for peer review and Teacher question prompting could be put in place?
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: when you say activity toolbar, do you mean the subtoolbar?
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: or the main toolbar?
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: yes
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:'''walterbender''': is that not what the subtoolbar is called right now? /me looks
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:'''erikos''': ok, I am talking as well about the activity subtoolbar with the title entry
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: yeah, just making sure
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:'''walterbender''': whatever toolbar is associated with the ActivityToolbarButton
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:'''erikos''': good good
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:'''walterbender''': so if we double its size and add the reflection entry, bump the activity specific buttons to the second row?
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:'''walterbender''': maybe add a star-for-favorites button too?
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:'''erikos''': yeah, space wise it is possible I guess
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:'''erikos''': (we might class with the star button in Browse (session bookmark) though)
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: I could try coding this up (maybe in time for the next devel team meeting)
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:'''erikos''': I think the sharing button we might want to move up to the main toolbar as well....
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:'''walterbender''': +1
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: maybe a mail summarizing what we discussed is enough for now
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:'''walterbender''': let me make some quick sketches too
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:'''erikos''': but if you have time, of course
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:'''walterbender''': erikos: me... all the time in the world
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:'''erikos''':
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:'''walterbender''': well, maybe we have gotten as far as we can w/o Christian and/or Gary
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:'''walterbender''': I will grab the log and add it to the wiki page and write up an email summary
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:'''walterbender''': but I think we are heading in a good direction
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: wonderful, thanks!
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:'''walterbender''': thank you
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:'''erikos''': walterbender: yes, it was very productive indeed
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:'''walterbender''': two heads are better than one
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:'''erikos''': yes, was a pleasure
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:'''walterbender''': three even better than two (jt)
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:'''erikos''':
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:'''JT4sugar''': Thanks for pushing this its very important on educational side-You staying around for 11 am meeting with Christain??
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:'''walterbender''': I'll stick around
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== Mockups ==
 
== Mockups ==
 
* [http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/e/e2/Detailview_20110313.pdf Detail view 20110313] from Christian M. Schmidt [[File:Detailview 20110313.pdf]]
 
* [http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/images/e/e2/Detailview_20110313.pdf Detail view 20110313] from Christian M. Schmidt [[File:Detailview 20110313.pdf]]
Retrieved from "https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Special:MobileDiff/74046"

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