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Oversight Board/Meeting Log Addendum-2011-12-02 (view source)
Revision as of 15:32, 2 December 2011
, 15:32, 2 December 2011→Post meeting discussion
:'''walterbender''': kaametza: but you also got an opening: if you can be concrete about a specific request
:'''walterbender''': kaametza: but you also got an opening: if you can be concrete about a specific request
:'''walterbender''': needs to go. back later
:'''walterbender''': needs to go. back later
:'''kaametza''' walterbender: would preffer a formal anwer from the SFC
:'''kaametza''' thank you all [great talking to you chris] we have to go now
:'''cjl''' kaametza: You need t oask a specific question to get a formal answer from a lawyer.
:'''Icarito-d234''' thank you all
:'''cjl''' I really want to help you guys find the right structure to be able to obtain financial support.
:'''cjl''' No one is against people being paid for their services, it is a question of via what entities it is possible for tha tto happen.
:'''jt4sugar''' kaametza: Set up as non-profit, charge for services, pay your employees, reinvest in yourselves, any excess gets donated to SL and SFC do all the paperwork that qualifies as Non-profit. If you act as non-profit you will need a Board. So when money flows in it's what you do with it that makes you Non-profit-i.e. no investors. Write up point by point issues or questions for SFC send to SLOBs list and SFC directly should get answ
:'''jt4sugar''' you need
:'''satellit_''' how does dfarning structure his? would that be a model?
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:'''Icarito-d234''' we'll work on this some more
:'''Icarito-d234''' jt4sugar: we are a non profit, we are called Sugar Labs, and we have a board, SLOBs - we don't want to do all that again
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:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: But SL seems not ready to do the contract themselves so you will need a separate non-profit to do the deal(this new structure can become the sustainable structure your striving for), will help you in future and will allow agileness you will need to act locally and regionally.
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: Unfortunately activities in different jurisdictions may require legal advice from someone qualified (e.g. admitted to the bar or licensed) within that jurisdiction. It may not be possible for the US based SFC t oprovide adequate counsel on contracts under Peruvian law.
:'''cjl''' It also may be tha the nature of the activity (a services provision contract) does not fall within the scope of the services tha tSFC provides for member projects.
:'''cjl''' It is a good thought to try to leverage existintg arrangements to the extent possible, but it is not an insult if those existing structures are not adequate for the scope of what you envision. Disappointing perhaps, but do not take that as a lack of support for the ideas.
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: A way to think of this is you would be starting the "Franchise Model"-Self sustainable Local labs generating revenue with excess revenue going to SL and SFC. A much needed model so the work you do will have far reaching benefits for everyone involved. A relationship with Business School/Law School at Local University might help tremendously in this area for ongoing sustainability .
:'''Icarito-d234''' jt4sugar: this is the local labs model which has not worked very well
:'''Icarito-d234''' jt4sugar: because its overhead
:'''Icarito-d234''' few people, lots of institutions
:'''Icarito-d234''' for instance 3 members of Puno Deployment Project are SLOBs
:'''cjl''' But AFAIK only one gets any money for Sugar work and that is via Activity Central
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: Can you follow up with Irma on quz files that were sent by Amos Batto? I will reach out to aym team by e-mail again, but we need to get people back to work on L10n.
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: yes we would like to improve that situation (only one getting paid)
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: will follow up with irma
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: Another point that I think SomosAzucar might want to address that is less complex than fees fo rservices) are simple directed donations.
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:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: kaametza and I were just talking about that topic (directed donations)
:'''cjl''' For example, can SomosAzucar set up a page like http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Donate wit hany donations being directed via SFC to SomosAzucar or can it be set up seprate fo SFC.
:'''cjl''' That is a straght-forwqrd and direct qu3estion and if answered in a good way can at least provide a mechanism for supporting Somos Azucar activities (although disbursements might need to be accounted for carefully as being made in support of permitted activities).
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: earmarked donations have been discused previously by slobs and are generally accepted but not implemented, ie. process and details
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: Understand. This is my opinion-In short term I don't see SL and SFC having capability-money/resources to get you the structure you need to get deal, therefore if this is a short term issue then the structure will need to be supplied by you. I am thinking of something like minded possibly here in Michigan USA and realize if I am to do it II will need to set up Non-profit-and that's a big decision
:'''cjl''' For instance, US 501)c)3 cannot make political contributions. . .
:'''cjl''' But they can pay for travel, reimburse for incidentals, etc.
:'''Icarito-d234''' jt4sugar: we shouldn't have to go thru the burden if SL/SFC already did it for us
:'''cjl''' Having an acceptable mechanism by which directed donations could be solicited would be a good start. Not an answer to the sub-contracting issue
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: I here your point but I think what SL is saying is they don't do direct contracts, which in this case is what your asking. They do contracts through third parties which would be the entity you would set up
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: Unfortunately, non-profits generally don't get paid for providing services. It is typicaly that non-profits give away services.
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: no problem there - tipically non-profits are funded too
:'''Icarito-d234''' have budgets
:'''cjl''' They accept donations to be able to pay the overhead of providing those services. Non-profits may even hire people to provide those services.
:'''Icarito-d234''' exactly
:'''Icarito-d234''' that's what we're proposing to design the process and document
:'''Icarito-d234''' within sugar labs
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: But SL has no employees and has made the arrangements wit hSFC in large part to avoid having to hire emplyesst odo things like file for non-profit status, etc.
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: we don't need employees or payroll but to hire on a project-by-project basis
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: its kind if what we do with GSOC
:'''cjl''' What you are requesting is that undertake specific activities and make payments to individuals to perform those activities.
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: I think you can document and set up process in Sugar Labs it's just that SL isn't set up to do direct contract. It's the direct contract that requires you to set up the separate entity.
:'''cjl''' GSOC is not paid by SL, in fact SL gets money from GSOC.
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl people get hired on a project basis (in gsoc case, paid by google)
:'''Icarito-d234''' Escuelab Puno is not google
:'''Icarito-d234'''
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: the complexity is this
:'''Icarito-d234''' we would like to replicate the puno experience
:'''Icarito-d234''' we would have to create a new entity everywhere we work
:'''Icarito-d234''' we don't live in Puno
:'''cjl''' I would not create an entity with a regional restriction.
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:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: SL is an entity without a regional restriction
:'''Icarito-d234''' Peru has 25 regions
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: SL is an entity tha is restricted in the types of activities it can undertake.
:'''Icarito-d234''' yes the big question is if our activities fall under what SL considers to be the activities it wants to undertake
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: Flip this around for a second. Let's say you were in Sugar Labs. Who signs the deals? If money comes to SL meaning SFC How do you and others get paid? Who would do all the paperwork so you get paid. Understand if the deal was with SL money would come to SFC before it got back to you.
:'''Icarito-d234''' it is not sustainable to create an institution in every region
:'''cjl''' Ceibal volunteer org is nationwide
:'''cjl''' Same with OLE Nepal
:'''cjl''' Maybe exploring how OLE does things would be worth understanding.
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: we consider our interest to be Southamerica
:'''cjl''' Ther eare OLE's in various places
:'''cjl''' Look at the OLE requirements for a new OLE http://ole.org/apply/
:'''cjl''' You will see they do not do things from a central point either, they have strong decentralization.
:'''Icarito-d234''' OLE is interesting to us - it also failed in Bolivia so far
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: Yes the activities your taking do fall under what SL wants but there is no one really at SL that gets paid to actually undertake the work you describe and to be effective there would need to be. Until SL did major fundraising and put these capabilities in place the 3rd party and local lab route seem to be only model to achieve deal in short run, I wish I could give you a different answer that allowed you to estab
:'''jt4sugar''' things quickly!!
:'''Icarito-d234''' yes the reality is that we need this deal to be closed soon so we could use SL
:'''Icarito-d234''' *so we thought we could use SL
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: I think this all boils down to direct contract and money flow. SL and SFC from what I heard don't do the direct contract thing. This seems to be key question for them to clarify for you. That answer will then show you what path forward is necessary
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: Unfortunately OLE Bolivia is pretty much a one man show AFAICT. I know and like yamandu but I would not take the OLE Bolivia experience as offering much insight into the possibilities.
:'''Icarito-d234''' ok we need to move on now - we'll figure out the best option - it's a pity SL can't be involved, its an opportunity for SL
:'''Icarito-d234''' *pity IF SL can't be involved
:'''Icarito-d234''' thank you all
:'''cjl''' Icarito-d234: please talk to Irma
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: its in the plan for Puno deployment
:'''jt4sugar''' Icarito-d234: Best of luck, I know it's a tough road!! Will be in touch soon about OWL jr literacy project
:'''Icarito-d234''' cjl: what do you need from Irma? Amos's files? shouldnt we ask Amos about them?
:'''cjl''' Iram wanted t oreview them, then upload them
:'''cjl''' Thye have not been uploaded yet (or sent to me for upload).
:'''Icarito-d234''' ok thanks
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:'''Icarito-d234''' bye for now
:'''cjl''' later
:'''jt4sugar''' Have a Great weekend!