Talk:Features/Write to journal anytime

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See Design Team/Meetings.

Log from Design Team Meeting 08 January 2012

walterbender: hi JT4sugar
JT4sugar: Hi Walter
satellit_: listening
walterbender: waiting for Christian
erikos: is here
erikos: walterbender: read your proposal and added a link to mine
erikos: walterbender: (see email)
walterbender: while we are waiting for Christian, please see http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Features/Write_to_journal_anytime#Detailed_Description
walterbender: erikos: I added a link to your mock up from ^^
walterbender: erikos: so you have your code snippet for ^^
walterbender: ^so^do
erikos: walterbender: I might have it somewhere but have to first locate it
erikos: walterbender: I did code it for the mockup indeed
walterbender: I wrote the code for the Entry Alert, but didn't do the toolbar integration...
walterbender: can we reach consensus about a few points to ground the discussion?
walterbender: (1) that we don't want a modal interface for writing to the journal?
erikos: hmm, i don't see the modal alert as a too bad option
walterbender: (2) that we don't need to display the entire entry as most of it is not human-editable
walterbender: erikos: I really think it is a big problem for the use case: taking notes while you work on things
JT4sugar: walterbender, I like the look of Simon's alternative. Could description be renamed to reflection? Think this is the direction working towards not notes
walterbender: and #2 is problematic because it means the activity is almost entirely obscured
erikos: I agree on (2) that if we go down the approach sketched in the wiki page (yours or mine) we do not need all the entries of the detail view
erikos: JT4sugar: it is named description because that is the name in the Journal as well
walterbender: erikos: but maybe we could add a star for favorite to whatever widget we use
walterbender: erikos: what is your argument in favor of modal?
erikos: walterbender: what I like about the approach sketched from Christian is that the relation to the Journal is clear
walterbender: JT4sugar: +1 for "refection"
walterbender: erikos: that is made clear by #2, not #1, is it not?
erikos: walterbender: if I click on the 'take notes'-button in the activity or the details button of an entry in teh Journal we always display the same page/alert
erikos: I like that consistancy
walterbender: erikos: I would like to change the latter as well, but not for 0.96
erikos: walterbender: change the latter in which way?
walterbender: erikos: we have nice mockups of expanding the detail view in place in the journal list view
walterbender: much better, I think as it keeps a context...
walterbender: so I wouldn't want to preserve consistency with something we may be changing anyway
walterbender: plus the use case is different
walterbender: I don't disagree with the need for some reference to Journal
JT4sugar: erikos, Yes but in a writing sense you are trying to prompt reflection that is aking for more than a description? the key in the classroom is condtioning this reflective action.Can we rename field? Or create new one?
walterbender: hence my use of a Journal icon
walterbender: JT4sugar: I think description in the Journal entry could be changed to reflection as well
erikos: JT4sugar: that is what I meant, if you think 'reflection' is a better name then 'description' it should be changed in both places
JT4sugar: walterbender, Can you explain what exactly "Modal" refers to?
JT4sugar: erikos, Gotcha
walterbender: JT4sugar: you are unable to do anything else until you take action in that window
erikos: walterbender: ok, maybe inline editing will be a nice thing, but we have to try that out first
erikos: walterbender: not sure it is the golden solution
JT4sugar: OK
erikos: walterbender: so, that we change to inline editing is an assumption as well
walterbender: erikos: agreed... just bringing it up as one reason I am not wedded to replicating the detail view in this instance
erikos: ok
erikos: walterbender: what we should take into account as well is the usability with touch
erikos: walterbender: as this will come sooner or later
walterbender: replication is just one mechanism for being referential... our crack design team can come up with others
erikos: walterbender: sure
walterbender: erikos: yes... we could add a virtual keyboard to your widget
walterbender: erikos: having hacked on a XO-3.0 for 48 hours, lots of observations... for another meeting perhaps
walterbender: erikos: but fundamentally, Sugar is not a bad experience
walterbender: wonders where Christian is... will send him email
erikos: walterbender: yeah, a lot of things are already in place, indeed
walterbender: this was his suggested meeting time
erikos: walterbender: I thin khe forgot
walterbender: sent him an email
walterbender: let's assume we go with some sort of widget on the toolbar or an alert as per the mockups...
walterbender: what are the advantages/disadvantages of showing the entire description (reflection) field?
walterbender: advantage is you see you past work/context for your new reflection
erikos: yeah, lets use the time to discuss this a bit
walterbender: disadvantage is that it takes up more room
walterbender: and it may be more info than you need at the moment
walterbender: I keep going back to commit messages as a model
walterbender: you don't need to see the old ones to write a new one
erikos: so you would want to appaned it?
walterbender: it is a separate activity to review them collectively
erikos: maybe an example can help:
erikos: It is Saturday, I do start writing my essay for Monday,
erikos: before closing the activity I add a description.
erikos: On Sunday I resume the Jurnal entry, write another paragraph,
walterbender: erikos: that is the old model
walterbender: the new model is note taking in a more continuous fashion
erikos: before I close the activity I want to edit the description
walterbender: I decide to use this picture instead of that one, so I make a note of why at the time of the decision
erikos: walterbender: well, it happens inside the activity
erikos: walterbender: whether at the end of the session or during you can not really control up to the user
walterbender: it is more of a continuous monologue of decisions while using the activity
JT4sugar: Understand we are trying to get in next release but in a long term vision kind of way would there be any way this could be combined with chat like abilities that would allow a teacher to pose a question into the "Reflection Box" that then child reflects on and is captured this way? Chat like functionality would allow for peer reflection or individual with a journaling/diary feel as well
walterbender: erikos: yes... but we want to encourage more rather than less writing and reflecting
walterbender: JT4sugar: that could be a nice use of the alert mechansim
walterbender: erikos: I have a skewed world-view... everything seen through the eyes of Turtle Art
erikos: walterbender: hmmm, but then it would be like leaving messages
walterbender: erikos: yes...
walterbender: lots of commit messages
erikos: walterbender: so we would need to stamp it maybe to make clear
walterbender: stamp as in timestamp?
erikos: or at least show them in a bubble
walterbender: that's OK
erikos: walterbender: yes
walterbender: +1 to timestamps
erikos: so you somehow have a history inside the activity entry
walterbender: erikos: this is why I was leaning more towards the UI I had mocked up... more of a short message model
erikos: this is a bit like versions...;p
walterbender: well... more like a commit log
walterbender: if we had versions... it would fit nicely
erikos: sure
walterbender: but I am mostly concerned about making it easy to add reflections... path of least resistance
walterbender: which is why I am almost tempted to have the alert or widget always present if the Activity toolbar is open
erikos: ok, so let's assume we would do the approach, add 'messages', display them in bubbles and add timestamps
walterbender: to me it is more important than changing the activity name
walterbender: maybe flip them... that message entry "bubble" is always available and the title entry is invoked with a button
erikos: hmm, i think the title is important too
walterbender: it is important, but not something you change as often
erikos: but as we reomved the keep button, I think we have space for adding a 'message' field
walterbender: erikos: in a manner such as your widget...
erikos: the title entry could be shorter as well
erikos: walterbender: no, maybe directly on the toolbar
walterbender: I guess what I am saying is that by default, the widget should be open...
erikos: walterbender: yes, understood
walterbender: erikos: do you really think there is room for both?
walterbender: not in Turtle Art, but that may be exceptional
walterbender: I could rework how I do my toolbars
erikos: in TA you have the exports as well, right?
walterbender: lots of different types of exports and imports
erikos: ok
walterbender: but I could put them on a submenu
erikos: I could imagine as well the activity toolbar having the height doubled
walterbender: erikos: that is sort of what I had in mind
erikos: to give more room
walterbender: the widget always expanded
erikos: would like to sketch that now to show walter
walterbender: erikos: actually, this raises an issue I encountered with the XO-3.0
walterbender: the slightly smaller screen meant that many activity toolbars went off the end...
erikos: walterbender: so either the widget expanded by default: for example: I click on the activity toolbar to expand it and it somes up like in my screenshot
erikos: walterbender: or making it double the size by default and rearrange the items
walterbender: I think that should wrap to an double-height toolbar
erikos: walterbender: ahh, the screen is smaller ok
walterbender: we could make that happen by default instead of the pull-down menu???
walterbender: but that is outside the scope of 0.96
walterbender: but I think a double-sized activity toolbar would not break anything and would make this current issue easier to address
walterbender: so the buttons an activity adds beyond the defaults would go on the bottom row?
JT4sugar: If height doubled would that open up room for more buttons/functionality(for post 0.96 work)? If so is that where the Chat like functionality for peer review and Teacher question prompting could be put in place?
erikos: walterbender: when you say activity toolbar, do you mean the subtoolbar?
erikos: walterbender: or the main toolbar?
walterbender: erikos: yes
walterbender: is that not what the subtoolbar is called right now? /me looks
erikos: ok, I am talking as well about the activity subtoolbar with the title entry
erikos: walterbender: yeah, just making sure
walterbender: whatever toolbar is associated with the ActivityToolbarButton
erikos: good good
walterbender: so if we double its size and add the reflection entry, bump the activity specific buttons to the second row?
walterbender: maybe add a star-for-favorites button too?
erikos: yeah, space wise it is possible I guess
erikos: (we might class with the star button in Browse (session bookmark) though)
walterbender: erikos: I could try coding this up (maybe in time for the next devel team meeting)
erikos: I think the sharing button we might want to move up to the main toolbar as well....
walterbender: +1
erikos: walterbender: maybe a mail summarizing what we discussed is enough for now
walterbender: let me make some quick sketches too
erikos: but if you have time, of course
walterbender: erikos: me... all the time in the world
erikos:
walterbender: well, maybe we have gotten as far as we can w/o Christian and/or Gary
walterbender: I will grab the log and add it to the wiki page and write up an email summary
walterbender: but I think we are heading in a good direction
erikos: walterbender: wonderful, thanks!
walterbender: thank you
erikos: walterbender: yes, it was very productive indeed
walterbender: two heads are better than one
erikos: yes, was a pleasure
walterbender: three even better than two (jt)
erikos:
JT4sugar: Thanks for pushing this its very important on educational side-You staying around for 11 am meeting with Christain??
walterbender: I'll stick around

Mockups

Name for the Journal entry extended view

The set of data currently appears with a header title of 'Name this entry', (an instruction), and no separate title when retrieved from a Journal entry.

With the new ability to write notes at any time, this form should have a new title. The menu title 'Write to Journal' may be confused with 'save to Journal', 'keep in Journal', etc. Some possibilities for a new title,

  1. Enter notes
  2. Activity notes
  3. Activity summary
  4. Note in Journal
  5. Edit Journal summary
  6. Enter details
  • The small 'forward arrow' button at the far right of the Journal entry should have a pop-up with the new title.
  1. Entry notes
  2. Activity notes
  3. Activity summary
  4. View notes
  5. See Journal summary
  6. View details
  • The Journal entry instance extended data view, itself, is properly titled solely by the name provided in the top text entry box, as the Resume, Copy, and Erase buttons refer to the entire Journal entry (except for the default Copy action, which produces various types of clippings) and not just the extended data.
  1. Better visual connections of this extended view to the parent entry would be helpful. For example, having it roll out, drop down, expand up, or similar transition from the Journal entry line would be helpful. This might be achieved without processing expensive animations.
  2. The activity instance (Journal entry) title should have exactly the same appearance in the extended view (including showing the title in bold, except when editing, to match the behavior in the primary entry), and it should actually appear to be embedded in the extended view (except for the forward button, which might morph to a return button).

--FGrose 16:57, 16 November 2011 (EST)

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