Marketing Team/Meetings/12-16-2008

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<mchua_> gregdek: ?
 Bah.  :)
 NEW RULE: whomever posts the agenda first runs the meeting!
 (tee hee)
 All right.
 Let's get to it.
 ROLL CALL please.
<walter> walter here
<caroline> Caroline
<mchua_> Mel
<jt4sugar> JT
* erikos listens
<gregdek> Decent quorum.  Thanks
 First of all...
<caroline> JT  can you expand out to somehting I can match with an email address to help me get a better feel for people.
<jt4sugar> John Tierney
<caroline> Hi John :)
<gregdek> ...sorry for sending a reminder saying that we were meeting at 10am, since this meeting is supposed to be at 11am.
 Apologies for any confusion, but since everyone showed up at 10, fine.  I still think we should keep the 11am slot, so in subsequent weeks that's what we'll do.
 ITEM 1: Make the "Get Involved" page amazing.
 walter, how's christian doing on his static page layout?
 Since it seems to be consensus that ultimately this page will live there...
<walter> coming along, but no quickly
<gregdek> Anything that anyone can look at yet?
<walter> I think people (including me) still owe him some copy
 Nothing to see yet.
 bit of a chicken and egg
<gregdek> Is anyone keeping track of the copy he needs?
<caroline> Greg, from the get involved page we need a link to the How to talk to us on IRC page.
<walter> but he has been busy with lots of other little detaisl, like logos
<gregdek> OK.
<walter> and a better calendar
<gregdek> We can keep this item simmering.
 Yeah, +1 to better calendar.
 And the irc question reminds me... do we have the irc client in-browser yet?
<walter> not that I know of, but chatzilla is so easy... is it a priority?
 maybe just the link to the chatzilla install is enough?
<jt4sugar> no downloads needed
<mchua_> calendar + irc sounds like an infrastructure thing to me - are they trac tickets yet?
<gregdek> mchua_: I know we discussed mibbit with bernie.  I don't know if it's a trac ticket, though.
<walter> I'll be back via mibbit in a second
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<walter> trying a new chat interface...
<jt4sugar> Pretty easy HUH?
<walter> actually, I think people will be confused the first time.
 we should add some screen dumps
 but then it should be easy
<gregdek> OK.
<walter> they need to remember to do three different things to start, including finding freenode in a *long* pulldown menu
<gregdek> So we need an IRC page that talks about:
<walter> anyway, let's add mibbit as an option...
<gregdek> * How to install your favorite client, OR how to use mibbit.
 Who wants to take that on?
* mchua_ can't take new action items this meeting, for the record. veryveryhosed.
<walter> walter steps back
 that leaves mchua, caroline, and JT in the front row
<caroline> I nominate Bernie :)
<mchua_> gregdek, walter: i suspect this will be the case a lot this week and next - perhaps we can push non-taken task items to a "help wanted" section in walter's weekly digest?
<gregdek> Yep.
<walter> tI think it should not be a techie
<gregdek> That's the point of this list.
<caroline> +1 to a helpwanted section on the Sugar Digest
<walter> mchua: +1
<gregdek> It's not just for everyone to claim something -- it's also to leaving things unclaimed to generate volunteer help.
 So that's what we'll do.
* gregdek adds to TODO with "nobody" as owner.
<walter> quick aside: why don't we use Jabber for meetings (eating our own dogfood)?
<gregdek> It's a fair question.
* erikos likes the help section idea - to generate and include volunteers
<caroline> Walter, I just asked in #Sugar and we do not yet have an XS we believe works well.
* gregdek wonders if we can come up with a way to tag all unclaimed work items to put into an easy view on the wiki...
<mchua_> gregdek: untaken task-items should have an applause-watcher to watch the todo page and cheer for any volunteers who pick them up, though
 gregdek: semantic mediawiki. ;)
<walter> we could have an include page and a template
<gregdek> Yes.  Are we running semantic mediawiki?  :)
<mchua_> that works too.
<tomeu1> trac would work bad here?
<mchua_> gregdek: no, I just checked the list of installed plugins.
<mchua_> (
<walter> it is interesting why we use trac for some things and not everything
<gregdek> I've never a big fan of trac because the overhead of managing it is higher... but I could be wrong.
 Properly managed, trac could be great.
 I've always used wiki for non-tech stuff because it's so lightweight.
<mchua_> trac scales better than manually-edited wiki pages do.
<tomeu1> would be awesome if we could do trac queries from wiki pages
<walter> maybe a link from the wiki to submitting a ticket? But we had an issue with SNR at OLPC
 We need, either way, volunteers to keep it all orderly
<gregdek> Frankly, the mechanism matters not to me.
 The important thing is the weekly meeting where we go over the items.
<homunq> OLE nepal prefers redmine to trac
<gregdek> But happy to discuss at some other point.  :)
* gregdek looks back at agenda.
<gregdek> * Create a sponsorship program.
 walter, any update on this?
<walter> no
 I've been hosed as well and been focued on the local lab topic...
<gregdek> OK.
<walter> next week?
<gregdek> Yep.
* gregdek amends.
<gregdek> Next:
 * Elevator pitch!
 I haven't talked to Dennis and Scott at all.
<walter> I have been talking to Dennis...
<gregdek> Anything about the elevator pitch, or in general?  And will they be able to join us for any of these meetings?
<walter> invite them and they will come
 Dennis comes up with nice ideas, but they seem to generic to me--they don't have a Sugar-specific bite.
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<gregdek> Hm, yeah.
 All right.
<jt4sugar> Sugar is all of the above approach Top Ten List
<gregdek> So walter, do you have Dennis and Scott's emails?  Since I searched my mail for their addresses, and failed to find them.  :)
<walter> I'll resend them
<gregdek> OK, thanks.  Sorry for the hassle.
<mchua_> so, I noticed has a lot of ideas, but no votes - people have only added their own new ideas
<gregdek> So Dennis and Walter aside... how do we start bringing the pitch to closure this time 'round?
 Deniis and Scott aside, i mean.
 Do we want to call a big vote?
 Do we want to let it simmer some more?
<mchua_> do we have any criteria for what we're looking for? a deadline? a sense of how "permanent" this elevator pitch will be?
<gregdek> Do we want to invite Dennis and Scott and receive their wisdom?
<walter> I thought we were going to run the picthes past some folks?
<gregdek> Yeah, but I don't guess we made the mechanism clear on how to do that.
<walter> I asked Dennis already. Wanna ask Scott?
<gregdek> walter: I will.
 Dennis had no particular opinion on any of our pitches, I presume?
<mchua_> gregdek: so, thought experiment: if, say, you exercised dictatorial powers and said "This Is Our Pitch," right now, would anything explode?
<gregdek> Nope.  I'm getting there, though.  :)
<walter> mchua: nothing would explode. let's choose one
<mchua_> or perhaps the somewhat more mild "this is our pitch; comments/etc welcome over the next 48 hours," same as what i did for the planet sugarlabs blurby thing.
<gregdek> Yep.
<walter> I like short and to the point
<gregdek> I want to make sure the point is the right one.  :)
 We can either:
 1. Allow me to choose as Leader Of The Marketing Gang.
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<gregdek> 2. Have A Vote Among Marketing Folk.
 3. Have A Vote Among A Very Wide Array of People.
 Which increase in order of "time to get something".
 And mchua_, to your point, this is as permanent as we choose to make it.
 If it goes on printed collateral like business cards, it suddenly becomes quite permanent indeed.
* gregdek pauses to receive wisdom.
<jt4sugar> Top ten things Sugar does-will allow conversation inroads with all types
<caroline> I'd love to get feedback from people in our target audiances who are not yet involved with the project.
<mchua_> I would suggest (1), with a 24-48 hr comment period announced to iaep (to increase chances of buy-in), and gregdek just Making The Decision at the end of that time period
<gregdek> So in three seconds, we got three opinions.  :)
 That tells me we're not there yet.
 And honestly, I'm in no super hurry.
<caroline> Maybe thsi is something marketers making a difference can help us with.
<gregdek> So let me put it this way:
 caroline, if you want to get other people in the loop and get some feedback, do that.
 And you're in charge.  :)
<caroline> yeah, wish I had time to commit to that.
<walter> I vote you chose and let people fix it: easier to be a critic than a creator
<gregdek> caroline: Then I think you've answered the question.  ;)
 So I'll pick one for now, shall I?
<caroline> But I have a pilot to plan, and I try to help everything USB and  I'm committed to the goal of teacher involvement so I need to focus my commitment.
<gregdek> And when people say "THAT doesn't represent Sugar AT ALL!" then we can go back and fix.
<mchua_> gregdek: +1
<gregdek> caroline: understood.  No criticism, just the fact of short resources.
 I would like more feedback myself.  But I don't think anyone has time to go get it, and I think we're "close enough for now".
<erikos> gregdek: sounds good to me - to choose one and see the feedback
<caroline> yes, hopefully some of the work we have done will lead to mroe marketing resources in the Fall
<gregdek> Yep.
 All right.
 I may ask people to vote to help me with my decision, but in any event, I own it and will have a deliverable by next meeting.
<tomeu> +1
<mchua_> gregdek: quick addition for when you announce the pick: "This pitch isn't set in stone. If you'd like to lead an effort to create a better one, the marketing team would welcome your contributions. Come to the next meeting at blahblahblah..."
<walter> +1
<mchua_> and +1
<erikos> sounds god
 aehm good :)
<gregdek> Freudian slip.  ;)
 All right.
 Moving on.
 * Get everyone's blog aggregated at
 Looks like we've up to... 26?
* gregdek goes to count.
* erikos put his blog up last week!
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<gregdek> Yay!
 Yep, 26.  Although it looks like a couple of those links don't point to actual feeds, as indicated by the red dotted line.
 Someone should fix those at some point...
<erikos> do people use categories, to avoid 'uninteresting information going in?
<gregdek> ...but I guess that's a trac ticket for bernie.
 erikos: It depends.
<_bernie> gregdek: the planetmaster is ivan, but I can do it too
<gregdek> I think that is pulling all of my stuff, although Planet makes it easy to pull only certain tahs.
 _bernie: Maybe ping Ivan to figure out what's up with the busted feeds, like the Ceibal feed?
<erikos> gregdek: yeah - asked ivan to only pull the category sugar from my blog
<_bernie> gregdek: send the link to the correct category to us
<_bernie> also send us your hackerotchi
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<_bernie> (the face)
<gregdek> _bernie: Will do.
<_bernie> I've been working a little on restyling our sites and make them consistent with each other
<erikos> _bernie: hackerotchi it is called?
<gregdek> Hackergotchi.
 OK, so work is ongoing here.
<erikos> ok ;p
<walter> we should put instructions to all of this somewhere...
<_bernie> to knit them all together I've started adding nav bars
<erikos> walter: yes!
<gregdek> walter: "contact planetmaster" is already on the planet sidebar.
<walter> I use categories in my blog, but I don't know how to tell the planet about them
<erikos> gregdek: well but the category thing
<gregdek> And "planetmaster" should respond with a standard request: "here's what I need."
<erikos> gregdek: and the hackergotchi thingy
<_bernie> walter: I guess the rss link may have something like ?category=sugar...
<gregdek> _bernie: However you and Ivan want to manage this, it's up to you guys.  At the very least, make sure that you're letting people know that you want to aggregate according to tag/category, which will differ from blog to blog.
 OK, any objection to moving on?
<jt4sugar> Need a Newbie lesson for this
<gregdek> I'm not sure I agree.
 People who blog already blog, and people who don't blog shouldn't be forced.
<jt4sugar> What if I wanted to but didn't know how
<walter> I agree with JT... it is only easy after you have done it once
 just like getting started in IRC
<jt4sugar> On ramp to on ramp
<gregdek> If someone wants me to add "a beginner's guide to blogging" to the TODO, I will certainly do that.
<jt4sugar> It would be helper for older teachers
<mchua_> I nominate jt4sugar for point on that todo, since he has a vested interest in making it happen. ;)
<_bernie> gregdek: yeah
<tomeu2> _bernie: couldn't find the other day a way to reach older entries in the planet
<erikos> jt4sugar: maybe someone that blogs already - can do a blog on how to blog?
 a blog post on how to blog - i mean
 jt4sugar: if that is what people need to start - i am happy to do it - just let me know
<_bernie> tomeu2: I think the link is missing in the template
 tomeu2: please file a bug for me, or keep reminding me until I fix it
<tomeu2> will file a bug
* gregdek adds a TODO: "beginner's guide to blogging for Sugar," owner jt4sugar.
<jt4sugar> I dont know how so that would be great Thanks!
 I'll delegate when necessary
 I accept
<gregdek> jt4sugar: Your learning process will be the perfect fodder for a beginner's guide!  :)
 (Start at blogger or livejournal, I'd say.)
 Okey doke.
 Moving on:
 * Business card design.  walter, anything new here?
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<walter> I posted moo stuff a while ago... Christian is working on a default
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<gregdek> OK.  Will continue to check in on Christian's design.
 All right.
 Any other business?
<caroline> I thought I added somethingto the agenda
 PD Intern, under Requested tasks
<gregdek> Yes, going there.
 (Moment of wiki fail, please hold.)
* mchua_ puts on the muzak
<walter> and I want to just mention the Marketer Making a Difference meeting in January
<mchua_> walter: ooh, where/what/when is that, url?
 that sounds rather fortuitous
 jt4sugar: also, if you'd like, right after this meeting I'll walk you through setting up a blog; it's fast, free and will only take a minute (and I find it to be the easiest to put categories into, for sorting into planet sugarlabs).
<walter> Something Caroline brought to my attention. A local marketing group that gives pro bono advice to non-profits.
* mchua_ cheers for pro bono advice
<walter> they agreed to meet with us in January (but would like just 2-3 Sugar Labs reps. to start)
<gregdek> OK, sorry.
<walter> OLPC has Larry Weber...
 whom NN asked not to work with us...
<gregdek> ...?
<walter> even though I am the one who brought him to OLPC :(
<gregdek> All right.  Caroline?
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 cassidy caroline
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<gregdek> caroline: tell us about your intern request.
<caroline> I think we need to focus our marketing beyond geeks and espeically to teachers.
 Teachers are far more likely to respect training done by teachers then by geeks.
 Thus I'd like to bring in a teacher to both do training and help us create training materials that meet the expectations of teachers.
<tomeu> I love the idea and liked the proposal you sent earlier today
<jt4sugar> Be great to have Intern to be liason to field groups
<caroline> this involves some financial commitments and I'm not sure how these get approved.
* gregdek turns to walter.  :)
<gregdek> Well.
<caroline> Also Professional Development is one of the engines that companies/local sugar labs can use to be sustainable.
<gregdek> Sounds like a fantastic idea.  The question is, what do we need to do to make it happen?
<walter> we need to make it clear how teachers (and university types) can leverage Sugar Labs to raise money
<caroline> walter, I don;t understand that statement
<walter> but we cannot raise the money ourselves... at lease I would prefer not to...
<jt4sugar> We need short-term funding to get to long-term goal
<walter> Caroline: like the Gardner Grant. We do it jointly, but we aren't the money tree.
<caroline> walter, did you get my email to SLOBS?
<walter> I will continue to try to raise some short-term money
 but it ain't easy or fast in this economic climate
<caroline> This does not require SL to raise money, but the money has to go through SL.
<walter> caroline: which emall?
<caroline> The financial side of hiring a work study intern
<walter> we can have money "pass through" SL as long as it is aligned with our goals and principles.
<caroline> I don;t want exact numbers on the public record yet as they may change so nayone who needs a copy let me know and I will email.
<walter> caroline: if we can find the money...
<caroline> So, I'm making this a no cost option for Sugar Labs but to make this work I need the following from Sugar Labs     1. Support doing the paperwork, she has to be paid through a 501C3    2. Help finding low or no costs spaces where Terri can do workshops for teachers and parents in Boston    3. Help finding USB donations so we can provide Sugar on a Stick without paying for USB sticks    4....
<mchua_> walter: I think what caroline may be asking for is the procedure for having money 'pass through' SL - if someone has money and wants to put it through, what do they do?
<caroline> ...Agreement that its fine for Sugar Labs to run a workshop for teachers and charge for it.    5. Agreement in principal that if things go well, and the workshops make money Solution Grove will either be paid back or we'll work together to endow a fund that is dedicated to teacher and community engagement and creation of materials for workshops.     6. Agreement that all materials created...
 ...will be available under an open license that allows remix and reuse in commercial applications by anyone.
<gregdek> Yeah.
<caroline> Walter, Solution Grove is fronting the money and I am suggesting charging for workshops to make it sustainable.
<walter> Let's talk to the SFC about this
* gregdek thinks Walter missed the "no money" part.  :)
<walter> greg is right...
 Caroline: let's talk to Karen this week.
<gregdek> OK.
 So I'll move this to the "accepted tasks" section.
<caroline> My plan in entrepenueral, Solution Grove provides the upfront investment but my hope is she pays for herself.
<gregdek> And mchua_, what about your slide deck request?
<caroline> and thanks to the fact the US government pays 70% of her salery the model looks good to me.
<caroline> gregdek, I think Walter has the next action, talking to SFC about how ot make the financees work.
<mchua_> walter, caroline: please post the "how to pass funding through SL" thing somewhere public when it's up? I'd love to take a look at it and possibly pass some stuff through it too
<mchua_> gregdek: i put it up on the todo, it looks like christian took it
<gregdek> OK.
<dfarning> mchua_, I also work on the pass through stuff
<gregdek> So that's our agenda.
 (Hey dfarning!)
<mchua_> dfarning: hey!
<dirakx> hey all i got i request we have to investigate forms in wich a local lab can alter Sugar Labs logo and what a local lab can't do with the  logo..
 sorry to interrupt. ;)
<mchua_> dfarning: yallrighty, then count yourself in that request as well :)
<walter> Hey. I need to hop on my bike... back online in 2 hours.
<dfarning> hey all just listening from the corner:)
<jt4sugar> If you can make that a visual it would help
<dirakx> i mean what is the grade of customization possible
<walter> I think in the beginning at least, we need to be conservative about the logo... more alter
<mchua_> dirakx, how urgent is this? (Is there a deadline that you need to know this by?)
<mchua_> gregdek: since the meeting's running long, do you want to pop this to the end of today's agenda, defer to next week, handle it outside of meeting? (I'm guessing this might be dependent on dirakx's answer)
<dirakx> mchua_: it's not urgent...but i think it is necessary to know this for other local labs..
<gregdek> Let's put it on our list as a priority two so we're tracking it, anyway.
 Since it's a textual logo, localizing the word mark is going to be an issue.
<dirakx> .co local lab is using a logo reviewed by christian..but we have to make rules about how to use the logo.
<cjl> Caroline Thought on soliciting USB sticks.  many shops have "custom logo" printed USBs as leave behinds, suggesting handing out logos with corporate logo (maybe also with SugarLabs logo) bought in bulk may be good way to get price down.
<gregdek> We need a legal team.  :)
<dirakx> i mean we would like to add the word colomnia to it with the same font for example..
<dirakx> gregdek: agree ;)
<gregdek> OK, so this meeting is done.
 I'll edit the wiki and send out the transcript.