Oversight Board/2008/Log-2008-10-17

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<walter> I submitted the DML application. I am not sure when we hear back on that one. It is relatively general in that I ask for support for development, infrastructure, and outreach.
<walter> I also submitted a proposal to Google 10^100.
<walter> It is a very terse proposal, mostly outlining our goals and the need to support community efforts.
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<walter> I have two different Knight foundation proposals in the works: (1) a focus on bringing Sugar into a community network as opposed to school network environment--to foster Sugar-like collaboration on community projects; and (2) Sugar for the elderly, with a focus on accessibility and collaboration.
<tomeu> we fit quite well on g 10^100, I think
<walter> These are due at the end of the month... I'll send drafts out soon.
<marcopg> can we make two proposals? or we have to choose one?
<dfarning> One of the reasons for going with google as email is to start escalating our relationship. email -> jabber server -> funding
<marcopg> (Simon can't make today meeting btw)
<walter> And I am working with Caroline Meeks on a grant to implement Sugar on a stick: USB deployments in schools. That proposal is due on Tuesday. Lots of work to do on that one, but it is coming together nicely. We visit a pilot school this afternoon.
<tomeu> sugar-on-stick and ltsp are quite interesting
<walter> We can do as many Knight grants as we want, but I am going to talk (chat) with someone from the foundation on Monday to ask what the best approach would be in terms of their needs and expectations.
<tomeu> because are somewhat decoupled form the hw investment
<walter> In terms of LTSP, there are several commercial companies exploring thin-client solutions of Sugar.
<tomeu> dfarning: can you elaborate on that?
<dfarning> ltsp is blocked pending a 'jabber server in a box'
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<walter> The group in New Hampshire that David and I have been talking with. A group in the UK. And maybe it is time to talk to the ncomputer people, but it should be someone other than me who engages them, as I have a history with their CEO.
<tomeu> dfarning: I see, and what has gmail got to do with that?
<dfarning> tomeu, once we have a relationship start it is easer to increase, I would like them to star hosting a jabber network for us:)
<tomeu> walter: I'm impressed by how they call media's attention
<tomeu> dfarning: google? would be awesome
<walter> I had some interest at Google in helping with the Jabber stuff from a while ago. I could try to dig up those contacts again.
<tomeu> dfarning: do you think we could get the extensions we need?
<marcopg> right, the extensions are going to be tricky I guess
<dfarning> I think that it is worth my time to pursue
<tomeu> dfarning: what about packaging the XS stuff inside the ltsp server itself?
<walter> From the conversations I have been having, the issues go a bit deeper than just the XS stuff.
<tomeu> walter: you mean technical issues with the ltsp deployments?
<walter> I hope to see C. Scott in Lima to talk to him about some of these things, because they impact the Journal as well.
<walter> Schools need to think about moving data into and out of the Sugar environment.
<dfarning> none of the movers and shakers in the ltsp community are interested in looking until we have a good jabber server that works out of the box in fedora
<marcopg> yeah
<walter> And they are interested in capturing student data over the long term--portfolio assessment.
<marcopg> we really need to get there
<tomeu> walter: then scott is your man, yeah
<marcopg> perhaps morgs can help with it
<marcopg> I'm not really sure of the status there
<marcopg> and of the future plans
<marcopg> I suspect we will always need some extension
<dfarning> we are killing morgs already -> he is the prime drive at ubuntu
<walter> So we need to think about the relationship between Sugar journal data, XS backups, and import/export, not just to external storage, but in terms of legacy systems. This is more important than using the file system as per Scott's demo.
<walter> We will learn a lot from the thin client guys--they have been wrestling with these issues.
<walter> Bernie and I will see them on the 1st in New Hampshire.
<morgs> dfarning: I've been helping nubae get working on LTSP on intrepid...
<walter> But this is slightly off topic.
<marcopg> dfarning: then let's bug Robot101 about it :)
<tomeu> walter: the XS already displays backups in the web server, isn't it already quite a bit in terms of interoperability in ltsp environments?
<dfarning> nice! I would like to catch up on your progress
<tomeu> yes, we are getting technical now
<tomeu> we could discuss this stuff in the developer meetings?
<marcopg> make sense
<tomeu> we also do ad-hoc meetings when someone brings up an interesting subject like cerebro, a new journal, etc
<walter> Let me report back after Nov 1 on the needs requirements. I think we are close, but slightly off target.
<tomeu> cool, I see there some future
<dfarning> tomue, agree -> action item. engage ltsp communtiy:)
<tomeu> I think both RH and Ubuntu are interested in the ltsp educational market
<walter> Back to finances, I am going to explore some collaborations when I am in Balzano next month.
<tomeu> they could give some resources further down the road
<walter> Also, I am still pursuing the USAID grant with Pakistan and had a fruitful conversation with a team from Gao yesterday about additional local Sugar Lab efforts.
<dfarning> I am lookin into on ubuntu edeveloper hire
<walter> There may be interest by some Indian computer manufacturers that we'll try to leverage as well.
<marcopg> hire as in having ubuntu to devote a dev to sugar?
<tomeu> wow, lots of opportunities ;)
<dfarning> yes, several months away i think:(
<walter> I haven't made as much progress on the industry-support front. The economy isn't helping--thank you Mr. Bush.
<tomeu> yeah, bad timing :/
<marcopg> heh yeah that sucks
<morgs> edubuntu is ubuntu's educational project with LTSP - but the core developer (ogra) has moved to the Ubuntu mobile team and edubuntu's pretty stalled at the moment
<marcopg> we couldn't have choosed a worst time I guess ;)
<walter> I still have a few potential quick infusions of cash I am pursing that could help with bringing people to events.
<dfarning> No, we have a great time. Govt are going to being looking in to cuting costs!
<tomeu> nice, we may need to start talking about how to get the most out of those events
<walter> The good news is we have a very efficient organization in terms of cash flow :)
<tomeu> dfarning: ;)
<tomeu> heh
<walter> We have no costs to cut :)
<marcopg> hehe
<dfarning> we just need to give them a reason to chose linux over windows -> sugar can be that (emotional) reason
<tomeu> yeah, we need to get money soon, so we can waste it and then start cutting costs
<dfarning> we just need to give them a reason to chose linux over windows -> sugar can be that (emotional) reason
<tomeu> yeah, we need to get money soon, so we can waste it and then start cutting costs
<tomeu> dfarning: yeah, I think politicians may appreciate sugar's educational focus
<walter> So that is all I have to report re finances.
<tomeu> dfarning: instead of going with a std linux desktop or with windows
<walter> I have a brief SFC report: Karen still need one more signature--she didn't say who.
<tomeu> walter: after that, will be already done?
<marcopg> heh so we don't who to blame...
<tomeu> s/will/we'll
<dfarning> move entire school districts to linux -> used sugar where are appropriate
<marcopg> don't know
<walter> That concludes my agenda items (except to talk about deployment later).
<walter> Karen said that we can start working on the real issues now. David, I suggest we schedule an IRC meeting to discuss the membership issues ASAP.
<walter> (I'll be in Peru all of next week, so IRC is my main channel.)
<walter> One other thing:
<walter> I applied for us to be listed on the fsf.org site. Hasn't happened yet--not sure why.
<dfarning> sounds good, that is a blocker. Companies are reluctant to become involved until governence is in place
<walter> (And we should ask Karen to get us listed on SFC)
<dfarning> is Walter officially our ED yet?
<tomeu> dfarning: I guess all board members should vote?
<walter> And one other little thing: I got my Sugar Labs moo cards. They are really fun. I suggest everyone make them.
<tomeu> walter: do you have a link to the design?
<walter> I can provide art work if you'd like.
<marcopg> you haven't posted links to them!
<walter> I'll do it today.
<dfarning> do we have quorum?
<walter> Christian's design is perfect for their form-factor.
<tomeu> we miss _bernie, gregdek and cjb
<walter> four out of seven, but I should probably recuse myself.
<walter> But in any case, let's switch to David's agenda.
<tomeu> we can probably do it in the ml
<marcopg> yeah it's better to get everyone vote I tihnk
<walter> +1
<dfarning> Ok, I'll figure out how to vote via mail later today
<marcopg> I think the outcome is obvious but just to make things right :)
<tomeu> yup
<dfarning> marcopg, exactly
<dfarning> good habits are hard to develop, bad habits are hard to break!
<dfarning> i guess member ship is done
<tomeu> I would like to have a talk with greg about how we could do the best use out of FOSS conferences
<tomeu> perhaps on next meeting
<tomeu> or I could ask him on the ml...
<walter> I think the event stuff he is doing is a good step, but it is a lot of overhead for posting in the wiki.
<walter> BTW, I am going to LCA--I have a Sugar talk accepted. We should leverage that event.
<tomeu> walter: you mean updating the wiki page is too much work?
<dfarning> walter, greg is used to working at the rh fedora scale
<tomeu> walter: what's the title of your talk?
<walter> Maybe if there is a template... but there is lots of replication of effort--multiple pages to create, etc.
<tomeu> yeah?
<tomeu> for the brno fudcon, they had this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConBrno2008
<tomeu> is quite informal, but seemed to do the job
<walter> my talk is just: "The Sugar learning platform" -- plenty of flexibility.
<walter> We'll be hosting the Boston fudcon at MIT.
<dfarning> do we have dates yet?
<walter> I think 9-11 January
<marcopg> I'll be giving a talk at linuxday in Milan
<marcopg> the 25 or something
<tomeu> oct?
<marcopg> didn't add it to the wiki, though
<marcopg> yeah
<walter> Anything else re events? (A bunch of us are going to be a FOSS conference in Lima; plus the translation sprint)
<marcopg> olpc planning meeting is not yet clearly planned
<marcopg> but maybe we should let it be just that
<walter> Yeah. As I said, I had a good meeting with Ed. I have been adding a few items to the wiki page they set up.
<marcopg> I'm not sure a co-hosted meeting really helps, might be just confusing
<dfarning> is there place on the wiki to post slides for talks
<marcopg> I still would like to see a talk to Sugar labs
<walter> There is a place in the laptop.org wiki.
<marcopg> if I'm not coming perhaps walter should give it :)
<walter> I see this as an OLPC meeting, not a Sugar Labs meeting.
<marcopg> I agree
<walter> I am not there until the end, since I will be in Europe.
<marcopg> but a talk about Sugar Labs in an OLPC meeting make sense to me
<marcopg> to improve communication/workflow with them
<marcopg> aah
<walter> I still don't understand C. Scott's comment about "us vs. them"
<tomeu> walter: last week scott and michael shared some concerns about SL
<walter> I asked him who us and them were, but he never responded.
<tomeu> walter: from their words, clearly don't feel part of SL
<marcopg> I'm not sure everyone understood what SL is about
<walter> I discussed some of that with Ed and hope to discuss it further with Scott in Lima.
<marcopg> I think they are seeing it more like a company
<tomeu> walter: would be nice to discuss how the rest of the OLPC can feel empowered to make SL what they truly need
<walter> I think Ed sees it right. And Chuck. And CJB.
<marcopg> something external which they feel is giving more issues then benefits atm
<marcopg> that's good
<tomeu> walter: will be good that you see what we can do so that Scott feels like a full member of SL
<marcopg> maybe cscott was just frustrated by me and tomeu saying bad things about olpc :)
<marcopg> and he fighted back that way
<tomeu> marcopg: oh, I actually expected he would agree with most of that
<walter> We'll work it out...
<dfarning> We just need to give it time. once we prove our worth things will work out
<tomeu> walter: nice
<walter> I'll grab him for a beer and some fried chicken and he can unleash his opinions.
<walter> good fried chicken in Lima.
<marcopg> good plan ;)
<walter> Any suggestions re the translation sprint next week?
<marcopg> maybe unmadindu have some :)
<unmadindu> link ?
<unmadindu> oh ok
<tomeu> walter: there seems to not be yet critical mass behind the aymara efforts?
<unmadindu> only Spanish translations, or Aymara/Quecha ones as well ?
<walter> We'll see who shows up in Lima
<tomeu> they had already one translation jam
<tomeu> made progresses, but looks like quechua/aymara is hard because of the new vocabulary that needs to be agreed upon
<walter> This is more focused on the FLOSSmaunels.
<tomeu> oh, see
<unmadindu> ah, ok
<tomeu> so there's only the spanish translation effort, currently
<walter> But we could expand it to Sugar too, if there is a critical mass.
<marcopg> looks like we are missing just bugsquad and infrastructure from the agenda
<marcopg> I don't think we have much to say about bugsquad
<walter> w/o SImon and Bernie...
<marcopg> depends on infrastructure
<marcopg> and on sorting out things with olpc
<dfarning> the french olpc team is planing a translation in a few weeks
<marcopg> I think Bernie is working on setting up trac on sl.org
<walter> I may see them on my way to Balzano (via Dusseldorf)
<marcopg> dfarning: did we make progress with OSL? still planning to go down that way?
<walter> And I need to ping AMD again!!
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<dfarning> I'll ask bernie to send a update to the list
<marcopg> AMD is lazy ;)
<tomeu> amd's network may drop icmp packets ;)
<walter> They did send me a proto-laptop to explore.
<marcopg> dfarning: oh, he is working with them?
<dfarning> I think he is happy with our discussion so far
<marcopg> let's hope they don't send a proto-server ;)
<dfarning> yes, they are currently setting up a machine for us
<walter> great.
<marcopg> cool!
<walter> I am all for handing this stuff off to them.
<marcopg> re trac and relation with olpc
<marcopg> I think we need our trac for at very least opening all the issue we are discovering with the other distro guys
<marcopg> if we send them to the olpc trac
<marcopg> we will just confuse everyone
<dfarning> ols with help set up an maintain trac and get for us
<marcopg> (I'm using wiki pages with Caroline for now, but that really sucks)
<marcopg> dfarning: cool
<dfarning> apparently trac has a steep learning curve from the admin side
<tomeu> sorry, off-topic, but have you seen the last occurrence of sugar-influence on the FOSS world? http://linux.conf.au/programme/schedule/view_talk/29?day=thursday
<marcopg> I'm trying to setup a little of release infrastructure
<tomeu> the bit about "View source"
<marcopg> do we already know where we will be able to give ssh out to developers?
<marcopg> is that still the AMD server?
<dfarning> I hadn't gotten that far yet
<walter> tomeu: Hurrah for View Source!!
<marcopg> tomeu: and the journal and...
<marcopg> the ideas are proliferating if nothing else ;)
<tomeu> ;)
<marcopg> dfarning: I guessed :)
<walter> marcopg: yeah. I haven't been reporting my Ubuntu bugs...
<marcopg> basically I need to figure out where to host releases, and setup automated scripts to make them etc
<marcopg> that's important for distributions to be able to package our stuff
<marcopg> and ssh access is the easiest way to do it
<dfarning> probably better not to host dev account at osl though, They have asked us to self host our build farm, download farm, and other non standard suff
<marcopg> dfarning: right
<marcopg> and Ivan doesn't seem to be happy to give ssh on his box either
<marcopg> that's why I was thinking to the AMD box
<walter> OK. I'll push to get the AMD box...
<marcopg> :)
<dfarning> marcopg, best plan is to work things out with needs with bernie, while keeping me in the loop. then I can go out and find what you need.
<marcopg> I guess with Bernie in Boston should be easy to set it up, once we get it
<marcopg> dfarning: yup, will make sure to coordinate with him
<dfarning> 'things you need'
<walter> I just pinged AMD again...
<walter> Anything else for today?
<tomeu> hmm
<tomeu> I'm good
<walter> I'll write up minutes.
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<dfarning> I am good also
<walter> (Do we need to formally approve the previous meeting's minutes each time?)
<tomeu> don't think so, people can comment afterwards, complete, etc
<walter> I post the entire transcript too, so I suppose my summaries can be verified.
<dfarning> I will look into it
<walter> OK.
<walter> So I'll be in touch from Lima next week.
<walter> chau
<dfarning> goodbye
<walter> and to Marco, ciao
<marcopg> thanks, bye
<marcopg> hehe
<marcopg> ciao ;)