Oversight Board/2009/Log-2009-08-28

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Oversight Board meeting log 2009-08-28

<walterbender> Can I call the SLOBS meeting to order?
<caroline> its now?
<tomeu> I think it's supposed to be now
<walterbender> caroline: I believe so.
<walterbender> let's get started.
<tomeu> hmm, no meeting bot
<walterbender> I'll just grab the log by hand :(
<walterbender> so, as far as an agenda, I have a few topics; others may as well
<walterbender> (1) QT
<walterbender> (2) $
<walterbender> (3) Interns
<walterbender> (all three are related, actually)
<tomeu> heh, soudns good
<walterbender> (4) 0.86++
<walterbender> Re #1, Bernie and I continue to dialog with Nokia re their interest in Sugar/QT
<walterbender> they would like us to explore it for them and have some funding for some interns this fall
<walterbender> I want to make sure that it is OK to accept this funding and put a program together
<walterbender> there has been some discussion about how this is a distraction, but I see it as an opportunity
<tomeu> I guess all opportunities are a distraction as well ;)
<walterbender> the basic plan would be to:
<caroline> but are all distractions opportunities :)
<walterbender> 1. Bundle some existing Qt/KDE educational software for the Sugar
<walterbender> Learning Platform.
<walterbender> 2. Design an equivalent of the sugar-toolkit bindings for Qt-based activities.
<walterbender> 3. Sugarize an existing Qt/KDE application (such as KStars) with full
<walterbender> Journal, collaboration, and Activity toolbar support.
<walterbender> So, unless there is strong opposition from SLOBs, I'd like to proceed
<caroline> Walter, can you give us a statement of what you hope for and draw the picture of how this work leads to kids learning with Sugar (I'm not doubting, I just want a clearer understanding).
<tomeu> I would personally start with 3
<tomeu> caroline++
<walterbender> caroline: sure
<walterbender> 1. it (potentially) broadens the platform base, the contributor base, and the available set of Suagr activities
<walterbender> 2. it is a major player interested in getting Sugar onto their platform
<walterbender> 3. it forces us to be more dilligent about being toolkit agnostic the way we are already trying to be hardware and OS agnostic
<walterbender> #3 could be a distraction
<walterbender> but I cannot see any reason why we wouldn't pursue #1 and #2
<walterbender> and #3 is good, but may be more trouble than it is worh
<walterbender> caroline: does that explain it or should I drill deeper
<caroline> Good!
<caroline> can you go a bit deeper in terms of software we will get?
<caroline> Kstars, what else?
<tomeu> ok, what about: 1. we put this concrete question on iaep (accepting the funding), 2. SLOBS vote by email if no consensus
<walterbender> google kde education for a start
  • tomeu doesn't like voting in irc
<walterbender> tomeu: I am not sure this is a matter of voting.
<walterbender> it is a matter of discussion and reaching consensus
  • sdziallas is here, lurking for the meeting, too
<walterbender> we've had a lot of discussion of the topic on iaep and dev (and irc) already
<tomeu> walterbender: ok, it's just a pity there isn't more people here
<caroline> Great thanks
<tomeu> walterbender: yeah, but I'm not sure if it was as well framed as you put the question now
<caroline> do you have any details on how much it will expand our platform base? or is that unknowable at this point.
<walterbender> caroline: I think it is unknowable at this point.
<tomeu> yeah, we would need to know how many developers with gtk or qt knowledge exist
<caroline> Will we be able to write a press release about this?
<tomeu> but I think we can say there's lots of them in both fields
<walterbender> tomeu: I think this falls under the category of something that a group of people what to do and it is more a matter of whether SL endorses it or just lets it happen
<tomeu> walterbender: sounds good
<caroline> Walter, I'm all for it, I just want to understand it and have us think together about how to make it the most positive it can be.
<walterbender> tomeu: I would argue that Nokia, in investing in Trolltech and with their recent announcements, is going to contnue to promote and develop the Qt world.
<walterbender> tomeu: they would like to explore with us being part of that world
<tomeu> walterbender: totally, this week they released new python bindings for qt, btw
<walterbender> I frankly cannot see how we could turn away such an opportunity
<walterbender> tomeu: and announced two new hardware platforms that are Sugar targets
<caroline> yes, I thnk that is imporatnt
<tomeu> two? I only knew of one
<walterbender> tomeu: a netbook and a new maemo device
<tomeu> wow, didn't knew about the netbook
  • tomeu googles
<caroline> to suceed we need to not only be technically successful, but be percieved as successful. this could be a huge opportunity to work on both of these.
<dfarning> I am concerned that we are getting ahead of ours selves. At this point we are only talking about funding intern with money we would not other wise recieve to to preliminary feasibility work not making a commitment to support qt
<walterbender> dfarning: we are not getting ahead of ourselves exactly because this is a feasiblity study, not a commitment to support
<caroline> nod to Dave, clearly we should do this. The interesting question is what should we say about doing it.
<dfarning> walterbender: sorry, that is what tried to say:(
<caroline> which perhaps should be tabled till Sean gets back. But it sounds like a great opportunity to expand the perception of Sugar as well.
<walterbender> caroline: I think we should talk with Nokia about how to talk about this publicly
<tomeu> dfarning: I think part of the confusion is that some people thought we were thinking of adding qt to the platform or using qt on sucrose
<tomeu> dfarning: while none of those have been put on the table as of yet
<tomeu> so we were discussing about ghosts in the ml, IMO
<walterbender> tomeu: I agree. I think there was that confusion
<dfarning> tomeu: agreed
<tomeu> we may get there one day, but we are quite far from it right now
<walterbender> so, I'd like to say to Nokia, yes wearing a SL hat
<walterbender> but this leads to a second topic: interns
<dfarning> walterbender: +1
<walterbender> dfarning and jelkner set up a mechanism for interns
<walterbender> modeled after GSOC
<walterbender> any reason not to continue to leverage that mechanism?
<tomeu> now that we talk about interns, I would like to see their work more exposed to the community
<tomeu> like have them sending emails to iaep presenting themselves, their work, giving progress reports, etc
<walterbender> tomeu: some of them blogged to the planet
<walterbender> tomeu: but most of them hung out in #sugar and the devel list
<tomeu> yeah, thinking about something more formal
<walterbender> tomeu: so I agree, it would be good to broaden the exposure
<tomeu> I'm not sure it's clear for iaep readers which interns we have and on what they work
<tomeu> also would like to know exactly how many people read the planet ;)
<tomeu> so I know how worth it's writing there
<walterbender> tomeu: in my blog this week, I only mentioned GSOC... next week, when I get all the reports in, I plan more detail about what they did
<tomeu> I have had to refer to my posts several times from sugar-devel
<tomeu> so have the impression that not many sugar people read my blog
<caroline> Blog posts can be confusing because they assume you have the history of previous posts.
<walterbender> tomeu: I spend a few minutes each week posting to the blog, community news, and the wiki...
<walterbender> I assume people are not annoyed at the redundancy
<walterbender> but I have no idea which one people actually read
<walterbender> I tend to get more feedback from the email, but that may be because it is easy to hit reply
<tomeu> yeah, may be useful to know, but I guess we are digressing now
<tomeu> we can pas this issue to the marketing team
<walterbender> back on topic: any reason not to use the intern mechanism for the Qt project as well?
<walterbender> with mentors from the community identified for each intern?
<tomeu> sounds good to me
<walterbender> and good communication to the community :)
<walterbender> which brings me to the $ question.
<walterbender> I can arrange for the $ to get to the SFC, but I am still unclear on how one spends money...
<walterbender> (or rather, how one gets reimbursed for money spent)
<dfarning> +1, after watching how GSOC went, we will model future intern/co-op programs similarly.
<walterbender> I assume each project has a manager who approves expenditures (Caroline in the case of the GPA project, for example)
<walterbender> but how do I get reimbursed for the USB keys I bought for GPA, for example?
<walterbender> dfarning ?
<dfarning> the is no formal program yet.
<walterbender> dfarning: can we task you with working out a mechanism with SFC?
<dfarning> so far I have been asking for approval on slob for each expenditure.
<walterbender> dfarning: seems tedious. I would think we would have SLOBs apprve a project/budget and then let the project manager approve the expenses
<dfarning> yes
<walterbender> and report back to SLOBs periodically
<dfarning> Agreed, would it be possiable to assign me, or some else as, treasurer?
<dfarning> the lack of treasurer makes this murky
<walterbender> dfarning: I thought you were the treasurer
<walterbender> or chair of the finance committee
<walterbender> or CFO
<walterbender> or some such title
<walterbender> our Scrooge McDuck :)
<dfarning> no, i just started doing it to help keep you from getting frustrated with dealing with money:)
<walterbender> can we (SLOBs) appoint dfarning to this role?
<walterbender> before he gets cold feet :)
<tomeu> sounds good to me
<tomeu> heh, mcduck
<walterbender> (webbed feet in the case of Scrooge McDuck)
<walterbender> shall we put it to a vote? (SLOB members only)
<walterbender> all in favor of appointing dfarning as treasure (AKA McDuck)?
  • walterbender votes yeah :)
  • lfaraone must have came in late.
  • tomeu also votes yes
<tomeu> lfaraone: yup, want me to paste the backlog?
<lfaraone> tomeu: sure.
<dfarning> Let's re ask on slob mailing list to insure more complete consensus. Money can be a sticky issue on oss projects.
<tomeu> lfaraone: http://pastebin.be/20581
<tomeu> ml++
<walterbender> dfarning: OK. But let's consider provisional approval
<dfarning> ok, i'll start moving forward
<tomeu> specially considering that no one will volunteer ;)
<walterbender> that exhausts my topics.
<tomeu> there's SLOBs elections, any news on that
<tomeu> ?
<dfarning> lfaraone has stood up to update the membership roles and run the election.
<walterbender> lfaraone and sdziallas are the new membership committee
<walterbender> maybe they can report
<dfarning> it seem to be moving forward
<lfaraone> walterbender: Well, we've received 5 requests so far. All have been approved. (and are viewable at http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Labs/Members/List )
<tomeu> so we aren't going to have automatic expiration of membership?
<walterbender> lfaraone: maybe you can ask people in#sugar to join... many are not members.
<lfaraone> walterbender: it's posted in the topic, but I'll mention it agian.
<sdziallas> tomeu: as far as I recall from the list, we're going to send out reminders to folks asking them if they still want to be a member
<sdziallas> lfaraone: (is this true or is my mind playing tricks on me?)
<lfaraone> sdziallas: this is actually something we hadn't worked out, but yes.
  • sdziallas nods.
<lfaraone> sdziallas: I'm not sure how we'd manage all the replies. know of a free tool we can use to automate the verification?
<tomeu> wonder if automatic expiration doesn't make more sense in very big communities like ubuntu or sugarlabs2011
<sdziallas> lfaraone: hrm, that's something to think about... not directly off my head, but we might find one.
<lfaraone> tomeu: well, in launchpad they have functionality to ask members to renew.
<sdziallas> lfaraone: and if nothing else works, a google spreadsheet form could do the trick for now.
<tomeu> lfaraone: right, they had to setup tools because they were a lot of people
<lfaraone> walterbender: can you get me the address list from last year?
<walterbender> lfaraone: will do
<tomeu> but we aren't so many, wonder what's the problem with having some people on the list that have lost interest
<walterbender> maybe you lose your membership if you don't vote?
<lfaraone> walterbender: hm. seems sensible. what if I don't like any of the candidates?
<caroline> send it none of the above?
<caroline> write in?
<lfaraone> caroline: hehe.
<lfaraone> walterbender: I mean, we could hack up a little script that generates emails from a list in tandem with a CGI script server-side.
<walterbender> I defer to the membership committee to work this out
<lfaraone> Good call. /me moves this into either PM or #sugar :)
<tomeu> you are expelled from sugarland :p
<lfaraone> tomeu: no, anything but that!
<tomeu> I personally don't see much of a point right now, but as I'm not going to be doing the work...
<walterbender> we should wrap up soon
<walterbender> it has been an hour
<walterbender> any other pressing topics?
<dfarning> +1 to defering to membership commettee -- this is a great learning opportunity for lfaraone and sdziallas
<walterbender> dfarning: the intelligence is in the leaves :)
<dfarning> walterbender: even if the leaves don't realize it yet:)
  • lfaraone accidentally set a fire and burned the whole branch down.
<dfarning> hopefully we'll try to keep a gardner around to make sure things don't get out of hand.
<walterbender> well, as we digress, I would propose we end the meeting
<dfarning> +1 to adjourn
<walterbender> #end-meeting
<walterbender> I'll post the log
<walterbender> Thanks everyone