Oversight Board/2010/Meeting-log-2018-10-05

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<vaibhavdaren> hi :D
<octamois> jaskirat : Have a safe journey, shine like a sun at summit :)
<jaskirat> hi
<jaskirat> <octamois> Thanks a lot man
<Hrishi_> Do share a blog jaskirat
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<jaskirat> <Hrishi_> yeah sure
<avinashbharti97> jaskirat: happy journey :D
<eohomegrownapps> walterbender: sorry I won't be able to make the meeting (my piano lesson starts now) - I'll check the logs afterwards
<jaskirat> <avinashbharti97>Thanks a lot
<rishabh42_> hey everyone
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<walterbender> hi
<samsongoddy> Hello
<sidhantb> Hello!
<Hrishi_> Hello everyone
<walterbender> so...
<walterbender> welcome to GCI 2018
<samsongoddy> Yay!
<walterbender> we have a very short runway this year.
<Hrishi_> ibiam, walterbender : thanks for preponing meeting
<walterbender> the contest begins in just 2 weeks.
<jaskirat> yes
<Hrishi_> :)
<ibiam> hi everyone
<walterbender> I think that everyone is set up now on the GCI site. We can start adding tasks there directly.
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<rishabh42_> +1
<jaskirat> +1
<walterbender> (They will not be visible to the students.)
<jaskirat> that sounds perfect
<walterbender> A few things to keep in mind:
<amanharitsh123> Hey Everyone , sorry I am late :|
<walterbender> There will be a link included on EVERY task to a background page I wrote up in the wiki.
<walterbender> https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Google_Code_In_2018/background
<walterbender> please help improve it
<walterbender> It covers general info like IRC, git, etc.
<walterbender> Also, we have (as usual) a beginner task to walk people through the Sugar Labs pull request process
<walterbender> I've already added that one.
<walterbender> So you can assume that people will know how to make a PR, which should be the gold standard for all tasks.
<jaskirat> +1
<walterbender> Please try to be as clear as possible in describing a task
<walterbender> and add a link to any relevant github issues where appropriate
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<walterbender> We can have design tasks, programming tasks, research tasks, etc
<ibiam> and also create tasks that are time bound .ie. could be completed with 3-4 days
<walterbender> 3 days is the minimum. Some tasks may take longer.
<walterbender> I usually think of the days as a way of indicating difficulty level.
<ibiam> yeah
<walterbender> But a complex task is best broken into smaller pieces.
<Ritwik> The students are evaluated based on quantity and quality both so there must be some beginner tasks
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<Hrishi_> Okay, is there the data dump available for GCI2017?
<walterbender> For example, we made about 5 tasks out of rewriting the Music Blocks server last year.
<sum2it> Apologies, I'm 10 minutes late.
<Hrishi_> Ritwik: there will be beginner tasks like creating a PR, setting up sugar etc
<walterbender> I have a data dump on my laptop.
<walterbender> I am not sure how much purpose it serves as most tasks were specific to issues.
<ibiam> Ritwik: quality counts over quantity
<Hrishi_> walterbender: please share, it helped me add tasks last time, now that we are not using GCI API
<sum2it> I wanted to ask about MB too!
<rishabh42_> yeah, me to
<walterbender> We can have many MB tasks :)
<rishabh42_> too*
<jaskirat> <sum2it>yeah sure
<walterbender> The dump is an individual JSON file for each task... a bit unwieldy
<walterbender> Id there something in particular you are looking for?
<walterbender> There is a bulk uploader BTW
<sum2it> I'll happily see over any MB tasks that required to be done. Please share the JSON whenever you feel so.
<walterbender> we could autogenerate a task for each open issue on GH and bulk load them
<walterbender> But we need to cull them carefully
<ibiam> yeah
<Hrishi_> walterbender: we can use bulk uploader for CSV that we are using right now
<walterbender> to make sure (1) the issue is current (2) clear (3) and has mentors
<walterbender> Hrishi_, yeah... but is it worth it? 
<Hrishi_> We can do with Ghub API like Ignacio and I helped last time
<walterbender> If you want, up load them
<walterbender> but they all need very extensive editing before we can publish them
<Hrishi_> If we can manually add no, but if we want everyone to add tasks first, then it's fine
<ibiam> walterbender: in autogenerating tasks with open issues, some issues are dated quite some time ago
<Hrishi_> Also, about the data dumps, it'd be great to show newer mentors how submissions of MB and other tasks should be.
<sum2it> We can publish only what you feel strongly aligned with.
<walterbender> I think if everyone loaded the tasks they wrote up (using the CSV upload or by hand) and marked that the task has been uploaded...
<ibiam> walterbender: would these be selected first before uploading?
* Hrishi_ I will add more tasks after 8th when my mid semester gets over :)
<walterbender> I will go through every task before publishing them
<sum2it> And some issues didn't reach a conclusion, like the temperament one.
<walterbender> The other thing I am concerned about it mentoring
<walterbender> I really want multiple mentors per task
<walterbender> a task with just one mentor will not get published.
<walterbender> but also, we need to be very strict about accepting student work.
<walterbender> We have to be consistent
<sum2it> I'll volunteer for almost every task that is within my capabilities. I assume Jaskirat would do so too , maybe.
<walterbender> which means, in the beginning, I will ask that each of you contact me when you think a task is complete
<rishabh42_> sure, that sounds good
<walterbender> Once we get aligned, I will "grant" you more autonomy.
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<sidhantb> +1
<sum2it> +1
<jaskirat> <sum2it> sure
<octamois> +1
<perrie> hello
<vaibhavdaren> +1
<perrie> sorry I'm late
<walterbender> But also, please remember this is ultimately about the students learning and having fun.
<walterbender> So be helpful and thoughtful and fun.
<rishabh42_> +1
<walterbender> It would be great if we could get a 100 or so tasks written up in the next week or so.
<ibiam> yeah
<walterbender> And then we keep adding as the contest goes on.
<Ritwik> How to decide which task gets published
<walterbender> One thing: there is a "bug" in the GCI software. Admins don't get a notification when a new task is added.
<walterbender> So if you want Ibiam or I to look at your task, please send us a link.
<octamois> +1
<walterbender> @Ritwik, I look for clarity, relevance, and whether it is doable.
<sidhantb> Should we first type out a task on a secondary medium like email or google docs and then share it with you and Ibiam or directly add it to the GCI software?
<walterbender> Be verbose in your descriptions
<walterbender> and include links for more info
<walterbender> @sidhantb, I prefer to work with the GCI interface, so we know what it will look like in the system.
<walterbender> (You can use limited Markdown, including [foo](link) for links
<sidhantb> Alright.
<octamois> How will multiple mentors be allotted same task, if one mentor is adding specific task?
<ibiam> you can assign yourself to any task you want to
<walterbender> remember, the tasks should have some relevance to Sugar Labs, which means some relevance to the application of Software Libre to learning.
<walterbender> We can have as many mentors per task as we want.
<ibiam> sidhantb: you can also use ``` for code
<ibiam> if you want to include any in the tasak
<rishabh42_> octamois, you can individually choose which task you want to mentor if it shows on the list regardless of who created it
<ibiam> task
<octamois> Ok, rishabh42_
<sum2it> Anyone else who is mentoring with music blocks background?
<walterbender> FWIW, just pointing to an issue in GH is not a good task. You should include a brief description and tag with relevant skills, e.g., Python, JS, design, etc.
<rishabh42_> I would like to get started with contributing to MB as well
<rishabh42_> sum2it, ^^
<walterbender> and make sure that the issues you point to are clearly articulated. Many are pretty sketchy.
<sum2it> Have you gone through the MB code @rishabh42_?
<walterbender> There are almost 200 open issues for MB alone
<walterbender> so no shortage of things to do.
<sum2it> Alright.
<walterbender> I've been on a tear trying to get things ready for the Japan deployment.
<rishabh42_> walterbender, sure. I spoke to Hrishi_ about this earlier this week
<walterbender> They have lots of new features that they'd like down the road as well.. perfect for GCI tasks.
<sum2it> Please let me know if any kind of help is needed @walterbender
<sidhantb> walterbender: I recently saw a few organisations following a strict specification(templates) for their issues which are pretty through. Would something like that make sense for SL as a whole to implement or individual projects?
<walterbender> Would be great to keep the momentum going from the summer re Python3 and GTK3
<jaskirat> sounds good also book for india market, walterbender
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<walterbender> sidhantb, It is not likely to happen...
<walterbender> but we could/should do better about tags.
<ibiam> walterbender: python3 port for activities?
<rishabh42_> sum2it, I've gone through the project and repo, yet to get involved with contributing though..was caught up with some other projects
<walterbender> Documentation is a acceptable task.
<walterbender> ibiam, that is a valid task
<walterbender> I think it would be best to make a separate task for each activity that needs to be ported.
<sum2it> @rishabh42_ no worries, we need to test MB extensively. Can you help with that before GCI starts?
<walterbender> it is easier for the students that way.
<ibiam> yeah
<Hrishi_> We can also have blog and outreach tasks, it must not be a boring task though
<rishabh42_> sum2it, sure!
<walterbender> We could make 3 tasks: (1) find all the activities that still need gtk3 porting; (2) find all the activities that still need Pyhton3 porting; (30 find all the activities where the git history is missing.
<walterbender> We can use the results of those 3 tasks to create many many more tasks :P
<rishabh42_> I'll also check the RPi image if there's anything required that can be accomplished via GCI
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<walterbender> +1
<sum2it> @walterbender Clever! +1
<rishabh42_> walterbender, +1
<Hrishi_> A reference for what needs porting https://github.com/sugarlabs/sugar/issues/787
<sidhantb> I wanted to talk about Design tasks. I have some ideas regarding tasks which range from social media to our core design documentation. I want the students to feel that what they've made is being used by SL, be it designing social media posts(which do get used, maybe a separate design guide for it) or making something following the spec. Like from my experience last year I got immense satisfaction when I saw my blog post bein
<amanharitsh123> rishabh42_ Possibly could work on my script to improve performance
<amanharitsh123> and on your script to refractor code , like I did during GSoC :)
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<sum2it> Can we have testing tasks in GCI?
<yashagrawal3> Will updated tasks related to gtk3 port.
<rishabh42_> Yeah amanharitsh123 , by RPi I meant all the projects pertaining to it :)
<walterbender> One last thing... let's use sugar-devel for our communication unless there is a private matter that needs to be discussed.
<walterbender> testing (and writing tests) is a fine task for GCI
<rishabh42_> +1
<octamois> +1
<sum2it> Alright.
<amaan_iqbal> +1
<amanharitsh123> walterbender +1
<walterbender> any other questions for the moment?
<avinashbharti97> walterbender: which are the major projects to be focused on?
<walterbender> avinashbharti97, anything to do with the Sugar Desktop, Music and Turtle Blocks, Sugarizer and Primero
<walterbender> and various platform plays, like RPi
<sum2it> Anyone else overseeing/mentoring MB tasks apart from you?
<walterbender> Another nice task are is in developing lesson plans or activities around Sugar
<sidhantb> What about outreach?
<avinashbharti97> walterbender: I was planning to go with sugarlabs social project too ..
<walterbender> sum2it, Devin among others
<sum2it> Oh great!
<walterbender> 2-3 from the Japan team
<sum2it> Alright.
<walterbender> Euan
<walterbender> avinashbharti97, that is fine
<walterbender> Marketing materials...
<walterbender> classroom visits/workshops
<rishabh42_> walterbender, just a side note, should we also work on publishing the Sugar image on Raspberrypi.org?
<walterbender> just not translation
<jaskirat> that sounds perfect
<walterbender> that is not allowed.
<walterbender> So... I think we all have lots to do in preparation.
<walterbender> Remember to have fun.
<walterbender> and learn a lot.
<sum2it> +1
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<sidhantb> +1
<vaibhavdaren> +1
<amaan_iqbal> +1
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<avinashbharti97> +1
<rishabh42_> +1
<octamois> +1
<amaan_iqbal> BTW are we going to go with IRC only for GCI chats with students?
<ibiam> IRC and the comments section in the GCI website
<ibiam> each task has a comment section for tasks
<avinashbharti97> walterbender: should the info about the creation of new task is shared on sugar-devel or personally with you and ibiam?
<amaan_iqbal> okay
<sum2it> Also, where will the guidelines for the standard of approving the tasks shared?
<sum2it> Since everyone will have to uphold to the same standard.
<jaskirat> ?
<eohomegrownapps> walterbender, hi
<eohomegrownapps> (piano lesson over)
<ibiam> I have to go
<eohomegrownapps> is there anything in particular that I should note with regards to mentoring?
<ibiam> bye everyone
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<sum2it> Are we done here?
<sidhantb> I guess.
<sum2it> @walterbender Whenever you see this please share the guidelines on developer mailing list. Thank you!
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<walterbender> sum2it, The bottom line is: would you merge the PR?
<walterbender> sum2it, the expectation is the same level of quality we expect from developers 
<sum2it> Alright, got it.
<walterbender> eohomegrownapps, have you seen all the recent changes to MB?
<walterbender> serious overhaul
<walterbender> all positive, I think
<eohomegrownapps> ooh nice
<eohomegrownapps> haven't had time recently (school's been very busy)
<walterbender> I've been pretty busy too...
<eohomegrownapps> but I'll take a look in a few hours
<walterbender> eohomegrownapps, love your feedback
<eohomegrownapps> (just out of interest, how's your day job going?)
<eohomegrownapps> also regarding the creation of tasks:
<eohomegrownapps> I seem to remember you saying something about creating tasks for a Git backend to the planet
<eohomegrownapps> is this something I should do? what would you want from the backend?
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<walterbender> eohomegrownapps, write up anything you think would be interesting
<walterbender> but try to make bitesized pieces
<eohomegrownapps> will do
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<ifeanyi_> Hi all, good day.
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<walterbender> hi ifeanyi_ 
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<walterbender> any SLOB members here?
<walterbender> samsongoddy, ?
<walterbender> elverma, ?
<samsongoddy> Hello
<walterbender> hi
<walterbender> no quorum
<walterbender> and no one except you and I responded to the email motion.
<samsongoddy> Yeah
<walterbender> I think it is time to gear up for an election to vote in a new board that actually is interested in participating.
<samsongoddy> +1
<samsongoddy> I agree
<walterbender> I'll send an email reminding SLOB members to please vote.
<aaguirre_> hi
<walterbender> And another to the community looking for candidates
<samsongoddy> Agreed too
<walterbender> How was your US trip? Looked great in the photos
<walterbender> ^^ aaguirre_ 
<walterbender> samsongoddy, I think I will look up the stats on meeting attendance over the past few years by some of our long-time board members... it won't be pretty :P
<samsongoddy> There is alot the Board need to do
<walterbender> yes... but apparently 1 hour a month -- scheduled well in advance -- is too much of a commitment for our peers :(
<samsongoddy> Yeah
<samsongoddy> Maybe it is time we ask for commitment
<aaguirre_> it was great! :-)
<walterbender> I wouldn't care except the SFC won't let us do anything without the board vote.
<walterbender> samsongoddy, the commitment is implicit. everyone knows the rules
<samsongoddy> You are right
<walterbender> samsongoddy, anything else for today?
<walterbender> aaguirre_, check out the latest Music Blocks... lots-of-fun
<samsongoddy> Nothing really. I wanted to discuss about sugar labs vision
<samsongoddy> And goals
<samsongoddy> But i guess
<jaskirat> hi
<samsongoddy> We long propose goals
<samsongoddy> But currently we are working on just 30%
<samsongoddy> Of what was written down
<samsongoddy> I think those goals needs to be agreed on
<walterbender> samsongoddy, you and jaskirat should come up with a new marketing team agenda...
<samsongoddy> I am working on that
<samsongoddy> I am looking at Sean's previous plan
<samsongoddy> Soas
<jaskirat> <walterbender> thanks i am on it making some plans
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<walterbender> Let's cast a wide net first... and then narrow the scope.
<ibiam> Hi
<samsongoddy> Agreed
<samsongoddy> Ssoc
<samsongoddy> ?
<samsongoddy> Is that gonna be a thing as we discussed?
<walterbender> What is Ssoc?
<samsongoddy> Sugar Labs Summer of Code
<samsongoddy> The one you mentioned
<samsongoddy> Some meetings back
<walterbender> OK. I didn't recognize the acronym
<samsongoddy> I also plan to bring bac Sugar Labs ambassadors
<samsongoddy> *back
<samsongoddy> A group of advocates
<walterbender> Given that we have 12 interns from Google last year--about as many as we could find mentors for, adding another program is a bit sketchy
<walterbender> Ambassadors could be a good idea... but we need to spell out what it really means.
<ifeanyi_> Hi all, a bit late.
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<walterbender> I'll post the log in the wiki.
<walterbender> Meanwhile, anyone with GCI ideas, please share them on Sugar Devel
<walterbender> or directly with Ibiam and me.
<samsongoddy> It has a document on the wiki
<jaskirat> okay sure
<samsongoddy> I will with you later
<ifeanyi_> Okay @walterbender
<walterbender> anything else for today?
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<jaskirat> <walterbender> is motion up ?
<jaskirat> i guess time is sensitive
<samsongoddy> Not from me
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<walterbender> jaskirat, no one showed to vote except the two of us who already voted.
<walterbender> I will send another email.
<ibiam> I'm a little lost
<ibiam> Network issues
<ibiam> What are we voting on
<jaskirat> okay thanks a lot , i guess if approved then sfc should not take another couple of days to make it move
<ifeanyi_> Are the emails tracked? Like number of opens, so we know the stats, if they are ignoring it or yet to access the mail
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<GrannieB_> Well... that is definitely a barrier to participation by people not familiar with irc. The most obtuse instructions I have ever seen
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<GrannieB_> OK so is this the meeting or not???
<ifeanyi_> Yes it is the meeting @GrannieB_
<ibiam> GrannieB_: it's to avoid the spam attacks
<ibiam> Only registered users can access the channel
<ifeanyi_> I started very early trying to bypass those barriers. It was quite difficult
<GrannieB_> Yes, but it is definitely a barrier. The instructions are scattered and not at all clear
<GrannieB_> I tried yesterday and then spent a lot of time today
<ifeanyi_> Maybe a documentation can help. Where and what to click to overcome the spam blocks
<ibiam> GrannieB_: the instructions are clear
<ibiam> It's just your chat client that requires you joining each time you want to use it
<ifeanyi_> You're very correct @ibiam . It's the chat client that is causing the glitches (at least from my end)
<walterbender> GrannieB_, maybe you can share your process -- obviously successful -- so others can learn from you?
<GrannieB_> I think I accidentally did it!
<GrannieB_> I actually registered twice... same name and pw, 2 confirmation emails
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<walterbender> GrannieB_, let's be systematic about this. first the basics: what computer/OS are you using?
<walterbender> then, what tool did you use? browser? irc client?
<GrannieB_> Chrome freenode
<GrannieB_> but the order you do things in matters... a lot
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<GrannieB_> The first confirmation message I got would not work. It said the nick was already in use
<GrannieB_> The second one (same nick... different code from them) worked
<walterbender> GrannieB_, https://webchat.freenode.net/ ???
<GrannieB_> yes
<ibiam> GrannieB_: after you got the first message did you try to identify your nick
<walterbender> So it was just a matter of trying repeatedly?
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<GrannieB_> no. It was more than that. I could write some easier instructions if I can figure out how I did it. The main problem is where it tells you to "log in" and they aren't talking about a password or anything like that that I can see
<GrannieB_> When I was trying to log in with my nick it kept telling me that it was not available, that it was taken. After the second time registering it, things worked
<GrannieB_> The registration instructions are ok
<GrannieB_> it is what to do after that is messed up
<elverma> Hello
<elverma> Sorry, I got called awy
<elverma> I had a bunch of trouble logging in as well
<ibiam> GrannieB_: whatever you do after is because of your client
<walterbender> elverma, while we have your attention, please vote on the email motion re Jaskirat
<elverma> Will do
<ibiam> It always requires that you login each time you open it
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<GrannieB_> OK what does it mean to "log in?"
<walterbender> I just followed the instructions at https://freenode.net/kb/answer/registration and it worked first time...
<GrannieB_> Exactly how does one do that?
>NickServ< identify ****
-NickServ- You are already logged in as walterbender.
<walterbender> type /msg NickServ identify YOURPASSWORD
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<GrannieB_> When I finally got in, I went through the "not a robot" drill... I had put in my user name and that was all. Then when I got an irc screen, I pasted the message verifying my registration into the bar at the bottom, That got me in. then I changed channels to #sugar - meeting
<elverma> walterbender, I don't see the motion. Is it on SLOB?
<GrannieB_> Oh, and it told me my registration was complete after I pasted in the verification
<walterbender> elverma, I emailed it Wednesday and again about 10 minutes ago.
<walterbender> GrannieB_, Please see if https://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Google_Code_In_2018/background#Getting_set_up_on_IRC matches your experience.
* walterbender needs to disappear in a few minutes.
* ibiam has to go
<elverma> walterbender Interesting. I see it on lists.sl.o but not in my email...something is broken.
<elverma> Can you record +1 from me for the motion?
<walterbender> will do...
<walterbender> maybe check your entry on the listserv
<elverma> walterbender: will do. Entire threads for Oct are missing in my email. Not in spam either.
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