Deployment Team/MeetingLog/2008-12-10

(08:59:28 AM) aa: dirakx: hello! aa alsroot (08:59:39 AM) dirakx: aa: hello. (08:59:43 AM) aa: dirakx: when is the meeting? (08:59:55 AM) icarito: hola gente ;-) (09:00:00 AM) icarito: en 5 segundos? (09:00:00 AM) walter: hola (09:00:01 AM) icarito: :-= (09:00:05 AM) aa: :) (09:00:06 AM) icarito: :-) (09:00:09 AM) tomeu1: this time is going to be for real! (09:00:21 AM) dirakx: aa: in a few seconds. (09:00:25 AM) dirakx: :) (09:00:42 AM) walter: I was just putting together a memo of understanding of what a relationship between SL and a regional SL might look like. (09:00:43 AM) ***icarito switches his brain to english (09:01:00 AM) aa: pablo flores will be joining us (09:01:03 AM) walter: When we get to that topic, I'll post it. (09:01:09 AM) aa: walter: hola! (09:01:24 AM) walter: good morning (09:01:47 AM) dirakx: walter: morning ;) (09:02:05 AM) walter: dirakx: are you our chairman today? (09:02:26 AM) icarito: could we perhaps have a quick round of everybody saying name / place ? (09:02:31 AM) icarito: this is sebastian, down here in peru (09:02:39 AM) walter: walter in Boston (09:02:44 AM) icarito: (everybody that's here for the meeting) (09:02:48 AM) aa: Andrés in Uruguay (09:02:54 AM) dirakx: rafael in Colombia, (09:03:02 AM) tomeu1: tomeu in prague (09:03:16 AM) dirakx: walter: if you want to aist me that would be nice ;). (09:03:16 AM) walter: I need to get our friends in Pakistan and Nepal to join these meetings (09:03:33 AM) aa: no one from Oceania? (09:03:34 AM) walter: @dirakx: I am not shy (09:03:35 AM) icarito: walter: perhaps time zone is a dificulty (09:03:39 AM) walter: I (09:03:44 AM) dirakx: walter: ;) (09:03:52 AM) walter: I'l reach out to them all in the next SUgar DIgest (09:04:08 AM) pflores [n=chatzill@r190-64-23-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] entered the room. (09:04:09 AM) walter: (my fingers aren't awake yet--not enough coffee) (09:04:12 AM) dirakx: icarito: maybe we should reschedule for them ?. (09:04:16 AM) aa: pflores: hi! (09:04:32 AM) tomeu1: we could change times from time to time (09:04:33 AM) icarito: great i wish they could come sometime - dirakx lets wait for them to say if its tz (09:04:36 AM) pflores: hi team! (09:04:48 AM) icarito: hola pflores, long time (09:04:52 AM) dirakx: pflores: hi, (09:05:01 AM) walter: hi pablo (09:05:43 AM) icarito: ok so i guess its us for the meeting (09:05:51 AM) walter: so, shall we begin with Rafael's agenda (09:05:58 AM) dirakx: ok.. (09:06:03 AM) aa: Agenda at: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Meetings#2008-12-10_meeting (09:06:07 AM) pflores: sorry for arriving late. I got very interested when aa announced me about new ways of working together with SL from Uruguay (09:06:37 AM) walter: sounds interesting (09:06:38 AM) dirakx: about fund-raising status i don't have updates..we don't have money yet in Colombia lol (09:06:44 AM) dirakx: ;) (09:06:59 AM) dirakx: i don't know if walter has any? (09:07:01 AM) walter: I have recently submitted two more applications for funding (09:07:12 AM) icarito: fuentelibre still has the 700 US RMS left - we're spending some on flyers (09:07:20 AM) icarito: we submitted a couple of applications (09:07:29 AM) walter: and Caroline and I heard that our application to fund a pilot of Sugar on a Stick was turned down :( (09:07:35 AM) icarito: one for USAID and one for Alzado.Org (09:07:36 AM) walter: But we will go ahead anyway. (09:07:58 AM) walter: I hae another USAID/NSF grant I am just getting started on... (09:08:10 AM) dirakx: http://www.netsquared.org/projects/free-social-networks-rural-education (09:08:12 AM) walter: It is about Science education and it is global (09:08:32 AM) walter: We can bring all of our efforts together on this one. (09:08:48 AM) dirakx: this is the proposal that icarito and i submitted to USAID coments/votes welcome. (09:08:52 AM) icarito: sounds cool, let us know how we can help (09:09:07 AM) walter: I had started a list of grant applications in the wiki... let's try to keep it current (09:09:09 AM) icarito: actually we should solicit votes because its the only way to have a chance (09:09:43 AM) walter: Sebastian, send another note to IAEP and OLPC-Sur to remind people (09:10:02 AM) icarito: ok will do (09:10:18 AM) walter: Just this weekly reminder is a good for me for staying focused. (09:10:48 AM) tomeu1: yes, reminders like those are good (09:10:58 AM) dirakx: ;). (09:11:52 AM) dirakx: also i think that if anyone knows about this kind of grants or challenges in their countries should let us know. (09:12:19 AM) dirakx: by putting them in the wiki..and writing proposals. (09:12:34 AM) walter: Sugar Labs central is happy to be a supporting party in these local efforts, if it is helpful. (09:12:39 AM) tomeu1: we should get people with experience in EU grants (09:12:49 AM) dirakx: tomeu1: +1 (09:12:49 AM) pflores: I was thinking about the grants that ANII gives in Uruguay (09:12:59 AM) pflores: http://www.anii.org.uy (09:13:09 AM) walter: Yeah. I am falling behind on that one. I have mentioned it to a few people on both of my recent trips to EU (09:13:24 AM) walter: But haven't followed through (09:13:41 AM) pflores: The problem is that they mostly give grants to companies settled in the country (09:14:15 AM) dirakx: that's the second point of our agenda today.. (09:14:20 AM) walter: It is fine that the money stays local... (09:14:31 AM) walter: that is perhaps why it is important to create local SL (09:15:13 AM) dirakx: walter: it's ok for a Local Lab to write a proposal and get this kind of grants ?. (09:15:27 AM) walter: As an action item then, can we agree to beef up the grant section of the wiki and I can add a regular section to the Sugar Digest about grants? (09:15:40 AM) walter: @dirakx: yes yes yes (09:15:46 AM) dirakx: walter: ;). (09:15:52 AM) dirakx: walter: sounds fine to me. (09:16:10 AM) dirakx: about wiki/sugar digest grants. (09:16:23 AM) tomeu1: I guess will be interesting for SL France to get a grant from the EU for a project in Argel, for example (09:16:24 AM) pflores: ANII supports a lot innovative software development projects. However they're not used to work much with non-profits (09:16:31 AM) tomeu1: argelia, meant (09:16:34 AM) walter: Pablo, for example, can you find specific grants in the ANII site to look at? (09:17:09 AM) walter: In the EU, I have also spoken to some companies about applying together with a local Sugar effort (09:17:20 AM) walter: I need to push them into action (09:17:59 AM) icarito: ok regarding funding i have a small question (09:18:14 AM) walter: ask away!! (09:18:28 AM) icarito: we've been planning a noisy community pr campaign to reject windows in education (09:18:29 AM) andresambrois [i=be401664@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1bda5356c6382d78] entered the room. (09:18:46 AM) icarito: one of the plans is to have a 30 sec video spot contest (09:19:01 AM) icarito: and raise funds to put it on tv (kind of like firefox guys did) (09:19:23 AM) aa left the room (quit: Nick collision from services.). (09:19:38 AM) andresambrois is now known as aa (09:19:54 AM) aa__ [n=chatzill@r190-64-22-100.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] entered the room. (09:20:06 AM) icarito: i've never put a donation button / dont know if it should route thru sugarlabs, guess not, we still have no legal entity here (09:20:13 AM) icarito: perhaps sugarlabs should not be involver (09:20:22 AM) aa: *sigh*, sorry about that, I´m back (09:20:51 AM) icarito: nevermind i guess i'll deal with that (09:20:52 AM) walter: I think we should get you your own legal entity... (09:21:03 AM) walter: is it difficult? (09:21:04 AM) icarito: yes i'm on it (09:21:11 AM) aa: we are on the same here (09:21:18 AM) icarito: requires some help from lawyers but we'll pull thru (09:21:29 AM) icarito: mostly need to get foundational documents right (09:21:31 AM) pflores: walter: I have some specific grants of ANII, but if you want we can wait until point 2 of agenda (09:21:36 AM) aa: pflores can explain it better, but for LATU to provide support to us, we need to be a legal entity (09:21:39 AM) walter: Maybe the SFC can recommend some lawyers who will help you (09:22:05 AM) walter: I will add it to my list of action items. (09:22:29 AM) icarito: walter: ok thanks dont let me slow the meeting, if i have a specific question or request I'll make it (09:22:58 AM) dirakx: ok second point ? (09:23:06 AM) dirakx: everybody?. (09:23:18 AM) dirakx: or is there something more to add ? (09:24:02 AM) walter: I think we can move one aa aa__ (09:24:07 AM) walter: ^one^on (09:24:10 AM) aa: yes (09:24:25 AM) dirakx: ok so aa and others are interested in how is the process of making a local lab. (09:24:44 AM) aa: and what it implies (09:24:56 AM) walter: I have been working on a generic MOU between SL and a local entity (09:24:59 AM) pflores: possibilities and obligations :) (09:25:11 AM) dirakx: yes..so we are making discussions here http://sugarlabs.org/go/Local_Labs (09:25:18 AM) dirakx: walter: that is needed (09:25:37 AM) walter: let me pull out my notes (09:26:33 AM) dirakx: but also about legal entity, i was in the impression that for now a local lab couldn't have it's own legal independency ? (09:26:38 AM) aa: I´m sure that if its along the lines of whats described in the wiki, it´s just a matter of wording (09:27:08 AM) aa: dirakx: why not? (09:27:18 AM) icarito: dirakx: yes why not? (09:27:19 AM) dirakx: not because it's not wanted but because it's an overhead for SFC. (09:27:38 AM) icarito: dirakx: its only an overhead for SFC if we collect funds as sugarlabs (09:27:47 AM) icarito: as sl central or something (09:28:27 AM) dirakx: icarito: that's the question...how should be legal relations between a lolcal lab and a central lab ? (09:28:57 AM) icarito: dirakx: there's no reason for you not to form an entity as I understand it (09:29:01 AM) aa: in fact, it could strongly limit the ammount of delegation possible if all legal matters need to go back to SL HQ (09:29:06 AM) walter: Here is my new wording (I'll post this in the wiki too) (09:29:24 AM) walter: 1.Sugar Labs and ??? agree to establish Sugar Labs XYZ, a local-to-XYZ entity to do software development, deployment, and support, including providing local and regional technical and pedagogical support; creating new learning activities and pedagogical practice; providing localization and internationalization of software, content, and documentation; and providing integration and customization ser (09:29:26 AM) walter: vices. (09:29:27 AM) walter: 2.Sugar Labs XYZ: (09:29:28 AM) walter: a. will be co-branded entity established in XYZ; (09:29:30 AM) walter: b. will have Sugar Labs representation on their board of directors; (09:29:32 AM) walter: c. will have web presence at xyz.sugarlabs.org; (09:29:34 AM) walter: d. will appoint a representative to Sugar Labs; (09:29:36 AM) walter: e. will not act as an agent for Sugar Labs nor to take any action inconsistent with the status of Sugar Labs as a public charity; (09:29:37 AM) walter: f. agrees to abide by the principles of Free Software, open communication, and community participation; (09:29:39 AM) walter: g. agrees to operate within the scope of the joint learning missions of Sugar Labs . (09:29:40 AM) walter: 3.Sugar Labs: (09:29:42 AM) walter: a. will help identify resources to be utilized by Sugar Labs XYZ on technical and pedagogical issues; (09:29:44 AM) walter: b. will appoint a Sugar Labs member to the Sugar Labs XYZboard of directors; (09:29:45 AM) walter: c. will include Sugar Labs XYZ as part of the global Sugar Labs community; (09:29:47 AM) walter: d. will not charge any license fee for the use of the Sugar Labs brand; (09:29:49 AM) walter: e. will collect no fees from Sugar Labs XYZ. (09:29:55 AM) walter: sorry for the blast of text (09:30:02 AM) dirakx: np (09:30:59 AM) dirakx: walter: so what i need here it's a necessity of legal advisory to for a legal identity locally that could address Sl concerns and needs. (09:31:06 AM) dirakx: to form. (09:31:14 AM) walter: yes, I think so. (09:31:38 AM) icarito: dirakx: we should be lawyers and set up an sfc latam (09:31:44 AM) walter: I think the local entity has to be the responsible party legally (09:31:51 AM) dirakx: icarito: hehe. (09:31:59 AM) dirakx: walter: +1 (09:32:04 AM) xander21c [n=xander21@200.62.165.36] entered the room. (09:32:41 AM) aa: I have no problem with that summary (09:32:44 AM) dirakx: that part it's not so easy but should be addressed because each country has it's ouwn regulations. (09:33:11 AM) walter: An SFC-like organization that can help is a very good idea. (09:33:39 AM) aa: walter: do you believe there could be a problem with SFC if Local Labs are legally independant? (09:33:56 AM) walter: I think that would be their preference (09:34:08 AM) aa: right, I agree (09:34:12 AM) pflores: so... in our country we should create a new NGO or similar, and then sign an agreement with SL, am I right? (09:34:20 AM) walter: Yes. (09:34:22 AM) aa: pflores: I believe so (09:34:29 AM) icarito: ok so the other way around then, the question... what's local sl relation to sfc? (09:34:52 AM) aa: pflores: I believe it fits well in our short term objectives (09:34:59 AM) walter: None (09:35:21 AM) dirakx: ok fair enough.:) (09:35:21 AM) caroline_: can sfc be a fiscal sponsor to nonUS organizations? (09:36:02 AM) walter: I will ask SFC... (09:36:16 AM) caroline_: do you imagine US local Sugar Labs forming? (09:36:17 AM) walter: But I suspect that the US/nonUS is not the issue, (09:36:33 AM) walter: They are responsible to their members, whereever they may be (09:36:43 AM) walter: But they are not responsible to non-members. (09:37:01 AM) walter: I think more than one local US SL will form... (09:37:04 AM) aa: hmm, I wonder if that can be legally so (09:37:19 AM) tomeu1: oh yeah, wanted to ask about multiple local labs in the same country (09:37:25 AM) walter: @aa: what is "that"? (09:37:26 AM) tomeu1: we are going to see forks and such soon (09:37:40 AM) icarito: tomeu1: you mean honey labs ;-) (09:37:42 AM) icarito: lol (09:37:49 AM) walter: I think we will see forks in pedagogy more than in the software (09:38:04 AM) pflores: In our country, for instance, is not trivial creating a NGO... It's expensive, takes some time, and requires a team involved on it. Some external support is needed... (09:38:05 AM) icarito: i think its healthy that we aim for simple to replicate (09:38:05 AM) aa: walter: that SFC can provide any legal or fiscal support to non-us associates of members (09:38:12 AM) tomeu1: well, I was referring to organizational forks (09:38:20 AM) tomeu1: like what happened in nepal (09:38:23 AM) caroline_: Well I imagine different deployments will end up on different releases just because of logistical relaity. (09:38:33 AM) tomeu1: people will start a local lab and two factions will form, etc, etc (09:38:36 AM) caroline_: what happened in Nepal? (09:38:38 AM) tomeu1: that stuff happens very often (09:38:58 AM) walter: I don't think we should or can make exclusive relationships with people/organizations (09:38:58 AM) tomeu1: caroline_: bryan started one ngo, then left it to create another, if I understood correctly (09:39:02 AM) caroline_: how did the organizations split get reflected in the code? (09:39:17 AM) tomeu1: caroline_: not thinking on code at all (09:39:25 AM) walter: It wasn't a code fork, it was an organizational fork, as Tomeu says (09:39:38 AM) tomeu1: just on the relationship between global SL and multiple local labs operating in the same geographical area (09:39:53 AM) walter: it was unfortunate, but I don't think we could do anything to avoid it... I tried, believe me. (09:40:17 AM) icarito: this is why having a set of principles is important - forks are inevitable (09:40:26 AM) caroline_: if we can have a code base that doesn't need forking when organizations split that is a very good technical goal. caroline_ cassidy (09:40:32 AM) dirakx: icarito: +1 (09:40:42 AM) tomeu1: it will happen again and again, global SL should just try to support all the local labs and let them do their work and resolve their disputes (09:40:45 AM) marcopg [n=marco@host238-115-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] entered the room. (09:40:49 AM) icarito: caroline_: we do have (09:41:04 AM) caroline_: :) (09:41:37 AM) aa: I think we can all agree with tomeu1 (09:41:42 AM) walter: +1 (09:41:51 AM) dirakx: +1 also ;) (09:42:02 AM) pflores: I agree (09:42:02 AM) aa: pflores concern needs an answer though (09:42:08 AM) icarito: +0.5 - as long as these clones follow some standards (09:42:18 AM) aa: "In our country, for instance, is not trivial creating a NGO... It's expensive, takes some time, and requires a team involved on it. Some external support is needed..." aa aa__ alsroot aa aa__ (09:42:38 AM) walter: Does it have to be an NGO? (09:42:59 AM) pflores: some institutionality is needed (09:43:01 AM) walter: Is it difficult to set up a business? (09:43:10 AM) pflores: at least if we want to run for grants... (09:43:17 AM) walter: Would a university affiliation make it easier? (09:43:25 AM) icarito: pflores: you did mention the ani grants were for businesses (09:43:27 AM) pflores: no, an enterprise is easy to set-up (09:43:43 AM) pflores: however it's not so easy to get funds to it (09:43:47 AM) aa: no, but its expensive unless you actually do business (09:43:53 AM) aa: and it will be more difficult to get support from govt (09:44:31 AM) pflores: maybe associating the enterprise with SL could be a good strategy... but I think in this case SL may have some concerns... (09:44:47 AM) aa: walter: Idoubt a university affiliation gives us a legal entity (09:44:47 AM) walter: We need to help streamline these transactions, but I don't know how to avoid them except to partner with an exisiting entity (09:44:49 AM) pflores: let me explain (09:44:57 AM) icarito: guys we're starting to see a pattern here - we should be on the look for something like a SFC latam (09:45:16 AM) aa: icarito: thats way out of scope (09:45:21 AM) aa: we are not lawyers (09:45:24 AM) icarito: perhaps some already established ngo (09:45:30 AM) icarito: aa i'm not suggesting we make it (09:45:40 AM) icarito: i'm suggesting perhaps there's already something similar (09:46:25 AM) pflores: ANII is a government agency, it helps mostly for creating innovative companies. This is a possible road. The problem with this is that we should have a business plan... (09:46:27 AM) aa: FSFLA should know (09:46:43 AM) icarito: but in the meantime we have to deal with these issues ourselves (09:46:58 AM) icarito: pflores: NGO needs a business plan to (09:46:59 AM) walter: So let's write a business plan... (09:47:13 AM) icarito: pflores: at least if it wants to stay Busy - ness (09:47:14 AM) walter: it is easy to imagine ways to make a business here (09:47:28 AM) icarito: there is certainly a market (09:47:29 AM) pflores: On the other hand, if we have a NGO, we may not get help from ANII, but we may get more help from other companies and other governamental organizations, like LATU (09:47:33 AM) dirakx: and then do partnership with SL. (09:47:35 AM) walter: offering support, training, software services, ... (09:48:01 AM) aa: I´m worried about how to include the documentation, translation, and pedagogical responsabilities we talked about in a business plan (09:48:09 AM) tomeu1: hmm, pity we don't have people from educalibre.cl in this meeting (09:48:14 AM) walter: ideally, there is local company that can help set up the SL XYZ (09:48:46 AM) walter: @aa: why is it a worry? (09:49:12 AM) aa: walter: because it was defined as an integral part of a local SL (09:49:28 AM) icarito: business have an obligation to be for profit, is that the problem? aa aa__ alsroot (09:49:36 AM) walter: I am not understanding something here (09:50:01 AM) icarito: aa i also dont see the problem in those goals even if its a for profit entity (09:50:18 AM) aa: icarito: of course not aa aa__ alsroot (09:50:27 AM) aa: in fact, I think the business idea is very good aa aa__ aa aa__ (09:50:31 AM) tomeu1: I guess local labs would partner with companies, ngos, universities, governments, etc to perform their activities, so may not be so important if they themselves are ngos or for-profit (09:50:40 AM) walter: In my world model, it is fine that the local SL is either for profit or non-profit, depending upon what is the best model lcally (09:51:00 AM) pflores: maybe what aa tries to say is that usually for companies $$ is more important than principles ;) (09:51:36 AM) pflores: but working together with SL may solve this (09:51:36 AM) dirakx: in my case it's better to have NGO because of taxes concerns..a company has to pay taxes each year. f.e- (09:51:54 AM) walter: Only if the company makes a profit? (09:51:58 AM) caroline_: these days the concept of social entrepenuership with a "triple bottom line" is pretty well accepted. (09:52:26 AM) aa: caroline_: not in Uruguay... (09:52:36 AM) dirakx: walter: even if the company don't makes profit. (09:52:49 AM) dirakx: there is an annual fee you have to pay (09:52:51 AM) caroline_: In the US for a small company its not that different to be a company vs being paid by a small nonprofit, the overall tax burdon on the couple of peopel inolved will likely not be that different. (09:53:05 AM) caroline_: aa: Thanks for letting me know :) (09:53:28 AM) walter: well, I think we need to have a recommendation from each region... (09:53:40 AM) icarito: pflores, aa: the legal structure itself is perhaps not as important as the mission / principles / governance (09:53:40 AM) aa: walter: I agree (09:53:52 AM) aa: icarito: it _is_ important (09:53:56 AM) walter: If it is best to have an organization that is directly part of SL, then I can talk to SFC about how to do it. (09:53:59 AM) aa: well, it is important to have one (09:54:04 AM) icarito: yes it is (09:54:25 AM) caroline_: icarito: +1 (09:54:36 AM) walter: OK. I'll talk to SFC about if/how we can do this. (09:54:52 AM) icarito: walter: i meant its important to have a local legal entity (09:55:38 AM) dirakx: that's the issue what would be the relation between a local and the globlal SL/SFC ?. (09:55:43 AM) aa: walter: I dont want to loose your "lets write a business plan" idea (09:55:43 AM) dirakx: global. (09:55:59 AM) dirakx: in legal terms i mean (09:56:03 AM) icarito: dirakx: with SFC none (09:56:23 AM) icarito: with SL the understanding walter just texted (09:56:24 AM) dirakx: icarito: ok. (09:57:02 AM) walter: I posted the draft MOU in the wiki (on the Local Labs page) (09:57:13 AM) dirakx: cool. (09:57:16 AM) aa: also, please remember that most countries in latin america have a french school based legal system which differs quite a bit with the US (09:57:38 AM) dirakx: bureaucracy.;) (09:57:41 AM) aa: for example, dont assume that a MOU has a direct counterpart here (09:58:20 AM) walter: The MOU is not binding in the US either.., It is an instrument for negotiating an agreement that would be binding (09:58:26 AM) walter: (I think) (09:58:43 AM) aa: oh ok (09:59:18 AM) walter: But the important think is that the MOU is implying a relationship whereby the local lab is autonomous and self-directing aa aa__ (09:59:37 AM) icarito: walter: if i get it right... (09:59:42 AM) walter: And it doesn't imply the local lab has to be a non-profit (09:59:50 AM) icarito: this is an agreement between two parts to form a third (10:00:00 AM) aa: no (10:00:13 AM) walter: and it says that SL will do its best to help, but only expects that the local lab abide by tis pricinples, nothing else in return (10:00:13 AM) icarito: aa its what the MOU says (10:00:34 AM) walter: @icarito: yes. (10:00:54 AM) walter: But XYZ could be any entity. (10:00:59 AM) aa: oh, right :) (10:01:12 AM) dirakx: aa. can you get informal legal advisory in .uy ? (10:01:18 AM) walter: Remember, this is a first draft... your job is t make it better (10:01:26 AM) edmcnierney_ [n=edmcnier@dhcp-49-69.media.mit.edu] entered the room. (10:01:44 AM) aa: pflores: (see dirakx) (10:01:57 AM) walter: I could ask the OLPC lawyer who worked with Uruguay if he could do some pro-bono work or find someone who could. (10:02:11 AM) dirakx: i mean in my case i have like some friends that can help me in doing a local entity..for free ;) (10:02:11 AM) aa: walter: that would be amazing (10:02:12 AM) walter: He is a very good guy. (10:02:34 AM) walter: I'll ask him... another todo for walter :( (10:02:47 AM) pflores: wlater: what you mean with "pro-bono"? (10:02:55 AM) walter: free (10:02:59 AM) walter: as in beer (10:03:08 AM) dirakx: all is work for walter that's not fair :). (10:03:18 AM) icarito: walter: understood - still for the new forming groups this means either 1.-get backing from an already established institution or 2.- form 2 institutions? i'm guessing 3.- tweak the MOU (10:03:23 AM) walter: just shows how bad I am at meetings (10:03:42 AM) walter: @icarito: yes (10:04:19 AM) walter: I haven't run the MOU past the SFC yet... I am sure there are things they will find problematic (10:04:32 AM) walter: but I thin they will be OK with the intent (10:04:43 AM) walter: so please consider this a rough draft (10:04:46 AM) icarito: ok understood (10:04:51 AM) aa: I think we are OK as well (10:04:56 AM) aa__ left the room (quit: Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). (10:04:57 AM) dirakx: walter: when would we have a final statement ? (10:05:07 AM) dirakx: related MOU. (10:05:08 AM) icarito: its a good beginning (10:05:22 AM) icarito: dirakx: i'm guessing we need to propose something too (10:05:29 AM) walter: I think the "final" statement would be worked out with XYZ on a case-by-case basis (10:05:37 AM) dirakx: ok (10:05:39 AM) icarito: exactly (10:05:45 AM) dirakx: perfect. (10:05:51 AM) walter: This is just a guideline for the discussion (10:06:07 AM) walter: so let me know if it is far of fthe mark... (10:06:14 AM) walter: not just legally, but spiritially (10:06:22 AM) icarito: walter: still those "principles", it'd be nice if they were on their own wiki page (10:06:43 AM) icarito: if we're to make them referential (10:06:49 AM) walter: yeah. the About page is a mess now... (10:07:05 AM) dirakx: icarito: can you work in that ? (10:07:25 AM) icarito: dirakx: yes i can only not in the next days - we have a big event (10:07:29 AM) walter: I should move the MOU to its own page too, (10:07:59 AM) pflores: Ok, so let's go ahead... suppose we solve the legal concerns and we have a local SL. It will run for funds for projects of local interest... (10:08:13 AM) pflores: However, the local technical people will need training, or at least will need to work in core sugar projects to acquire the know-how. (10:08:33 AM) pflores: I mean, local and global SL will have to start to work together (10:08:43 AM) icarito: pflores: training is quite sustainable (10:08:45 AM) walter: Sugar Labs community will try to help with those issues... (10:09:06 AM) walter: that is an advantage of a global project (10:09:30 AM) dirakx: Sugar Labs global it's like the community as i see it. (10:09:39 AM) icarito: pflores: there potential for sustainability in training, integration, support, development (10:09:45 AM) pflores: I mean, we should create mixed teams to work on projects, otherwise the association may not be much meaningful (10:10:06 AM) icarito: pflores: sugarlabs is basically meant to work as a federation (10:10:15 AM) icarito: as I understand it (10:10:22 AM) walter: by default the teams are mixed... (10:10:42 AM) icarito: pflores in fact we can coordinate and specialize, depending on our local conditions (10:10:44 AM) walter: but as we discussed at the beginning of the meeting, we need to be more aggressive about outreach to other regions... (10:10:55 AM) walter: LATAM dominates (10:11:16 AM) pflores: more or less... the core working team supported by SL is not mixed (10:11:49 AM) walter: supported how? No one at SL gets any financial support--our budget is 0 (10:11:50 AM) dirakx: walter: i think we have to get to Asia for example. (10:12:01 AM) walter: +1 (10:12:12 AM) icarito: we just make it really simple to deploy sugar (10:12:17 AM) icarito: then they will come (10:12:28 AM) dirakx: truth. (10:12:33 AM) icarito: computer labs scenario is virtually unexplored and a huge market (10:12:35 AM) pflores: walter: you have no infrastructure in the US? (10:12:49 AM) icarito: may i remind everybody that theres incredible amounts of private schools too (10:12:57 AM) walter: we have a few donated serves and lots of volunteers, including me (10:12:57 AM) icarito: so a market for local SL exists vastly (10:13:11 AM) dirakx: pflores: there is some but it's all donated. (10:13:30 AM) walter: no other infrastructure. do we need more? (10:13:42 AM) walter: and SFC is donating legal services (10:13:56 AM) icarito: the least overhed the better (10:14:04 AM) dirakx: pflores: or are you meaning what kind of infrastructure ?. (10:14:06 AM) icarito: we can do focused efforts, projects (10:14:14 AM) tomeu1: ed cherlin talks about some ngos he knows in africa, we should ping him so is present at the next meeting (10:14:29 AM) dirakx: +1 (10:14:29 AM) aa: walter: is there a plan to make SL US sustainable? (10:14:45 AM) walter: There is no SL US that I am aware of... (10:15:05 AM) icarito: yes, "central" and "local" designation is awkward (10:15:14 AM) icarito: can't see the center if US is not center (10:15:18 AM) walter: The plan for making SL sustainable is to keep it a lightweight virtual organization that can help make sustainable regional efforts (10:15:21 AM) aa: so, basically, there is no "central" :) aa alsroot (10:15:35 AM) icarito: aa yes basically "federation" would almost be a better word (10:15:36 AM) tomeu1: well, SL US would be a peer to other local labs, as I see it (10:15:42 AM) icarito: if there were local entities to "federate" (10:15:44 AM) tomeu1: global SL is global (10:15:51 AM) icarito: ah global (10:15:55 AM) walter: I live in Central St, so when I hack from home, I suppose there is a Central. (10:16:01 AM) tomeu1: aha (10:16:12 AM) dirakx: haha. (10:16:14 AM) icarito: tomeu1: lol like variables (10:16:16 AM) aa: xD (10:16:25 AM) icarito: how geeky (10:16:28 AM) icarito: :-) (10:16:32 AM) dirakx: so ok any more concerns everyone? (10:16:34 AM) tomeu1: icarito: that's interesting, to have several global labs (10:16:53 AM) pflores: ok, maybe I was confused, I thought SL had its own physical space (10:17:01 AM) edmcnierney left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). (10:17:13 AM) walter: I think some of the regional SL labs will have the intention of becoming global, which means less work for me :) (10:17:14 AM) tomeu1: pflores: several: one is my sofa ;) (10:17:21 AM) icarito: the "labs" designation gives that impresion (10:17:33 AM) tomeu1: icarito: yeah (10:17:49 AM) tomeu1: I think that SL creates several spaces, though they aren't physical (10:17:50 AM) pflores: hahaha! (10:17:51 AM) walter: We do have some space available when we need it--donated by friends of Sugar. (10:17:55 AM) tomeu1: as spaces where collaboration happens (10:18:06 AM) walter: So we held Sugar Camp at OLE's office. (10:18:09 AM) dirakx: icarito: maybe fuentelibre could be a global Sugar-honey Lab ;) (10:18:11 AM) icarito: yes, we even have a "neighborhood" ;-) (10:18:14 AM) tomeu1: the wiki, git, irc, etc can be considered spaces (10:18:18 AM) caroline_: walter, any gargage space to store computers? (10:18:20 AM) walter: We'll cohost FUDCom at MIT (10:18:37 AM) walter: My garage is full of boats and bikes (10:18:53 AM) icarito: oh and dont forget our next event at the Foro Culturas para Tranformaciòn Social (10:18:56 AM) walter: But I could find somewhere to put stuff in a pinch (10:18:57 AM) icarito: hehe (10:19:23 AM) aa: ok, so what would be important for us to have from global SL: branding and training (10:19:23 AM) aa: as I understand, it is about what we can expect to get (10:19:25 AM) walter: So we find space when we need it... but we don't pay any rent... (10:19:25 AM) caroline_: I figure I'll put a plea out to OLPC Boston (10:19:42 AM) walter: any estimate of cubic feet? aa alsroot (10:19:55 AM) dirakx: aa: that's truth.. (10:19:58 AM) tomeu1: pflores: and with people like walter that know everyone, we don't really need to have our own stuff, there's always people lending the stuff we need ;) (10:20:12 AM) icarito: aa: training? (10:20:22 AM) aa: icarito: access to developers :) (10:20:23 AM) tomeu1: certification? (10:20:28 AM) dirakx: training in the community way. (10:20:35 AM) aa: right (10:20:36 AM) walter: Tomeu raises an interesting point (10:20:38 AM) caroline_: walter not yet, depends on when we get ocmputers and when we install them. (10:20:44 AM) icarito: aa: training = "capacitación" (10:20:46 AM) dirakx: tomeu1: that's other key issue. (10:20:57 AM) aa: icarito: yup (10:20:58 AM) caroline_: I'm pitching my husbands company to get old computers soon. (10:21:10 AM) dirakx: could be sugar giving sugar-certifications ?. (10:21:35 AM) dirakx: these kind of stuff are important in our countries. (10:21:38 AM) icarito: aa it would be interesting if local SL could offer certification on certain courses / workshops (10:21:46 AM) icarito: i'm working on preparing a workshop (10:21:58 AM) icarito: it'd be nice to have some standards (10:21:59 AM) caroline_: icarito, what is the topic/audiance? (10:22:01 AM) tomeu1: aa, icarito: sugar developers are happy to share they knowledge, but we need to get better at making the best use of that time (10:22:04 AM) aa: what sort of certifications: certified activities/software? or like Sugar Labs Certified Engineer? (10:22:17 AM) icarito: caroline_: teachers in charge of computer lab rooms (10:22:20 AM) icarito: 4 days (10:22:30 AM) caroline_: cool, what language? (10:22:31 AM) walter: I need to look into that further... I am asking at a local teacher training college about getting the teachers a certificate for Sugar training too. (10:22:41 AM) icarito: must bring them to install a server and ubuntu+sugar (10:22:43 AM) icarito: spanish (10:22:52 AM) walter: pythin (10:22:57 AM) dirakx: we worked in Colombia with some professors too. (10:23:00 AM) icarito: caroline_: will happen in februrary most likely (10:23:28 AM) caroline_: in the US teacher professional training is a big thing that is dictated in union contracts. (10:23:46 AM) dirakx: http://sugarlabs.org/go/DeploymentTeam/Deployment_guide_sur/TallerBuinaima (10:24:04 AM) aa__ [n=chatzill@r190-64-22-100.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] entered the room. (10:24:05 AM) dirakx: it would be nice if the next time we could get them certificates. (10:24:05 AM) icarito: caroline_: yes our regions have budgets for training, so that is basically fuentelibre's business plan (10:24:22 AM) caroline_: icarito, exactly (10:24:25 AM) icarito: re-invent training in a free software community sense (10:24:55 AM) caroline_: So its in all our best interests to have really sharp teacher training. (10:25:04 AM) icarito: bottom up collaboration built in - copying is encouraged (10:25:14 AM) icarito: caroline_: yes it is (10:25:20 AM) caroline_: In the US teacher training is taken far more seriously if the trainer has teaching experience is your region the same? (10:25:24 AM) icarito: we have to stress this is an education project (10:25:38 AM) caroline_: icarito +1 (10:26:05 AM) icarito: caroline_: there is demand and little offerings (10:26:35 AM) dirakx: ok so next item ? (10:27:38 AM) walter: a quick update on Colombia? (10:27:43 AM) icarito: caroline_, dirakx: perhaps we could work on a model for workshops - taking pilar's experience too (10:27:50 AM) dirakx: i have to give a quick update about what's hapenning in Local Labs colombia (10:27:54 AM) dirakx: icarito: yes! (10:27:56 AM) icarito: ok (10:28:28 AM) dirakx: so as you know we have been working with bernie's and Ivan's help in doing all the infrastructure part. (10:28:55 AM) dirakx: we have know personal mail accounts maillist and soon to have wikis and an static page. (10:29:58 AM) dirakx: as the link above we are beginning to work with teachers and next year is promising about doing some other trainings. (10:30:42 AM) dirakx: i think we have to be on top also of making a legal entity to be able to talk directly with foundations and others. (10:31:35 AM) dirakx: also ...i don't like to mention this but there is a possibility that ministry of education lend us a couple of classmates to work on Sugar porting on them (10:32:15 AM) walter: there are others working on that port as well... you should compare note. (10:32:29 AM) dirakx: right (10:32:47 AM) dirakx: also there is a member of our group working in making an activity (10:33:04 AM) dirakx: called mentefactos..for doing conceptual maps. (10:33:21 AM) dirakx: and that's all for now. (10:33:37 AM) aa: dirakx: is he aware on tomeu1´s work on Labrynth? aa aa__ alsroot aa aa__ alsroot aa aa__ (10:34:10 AM) mchua [n=mchua@dhcp-49-115.media.mit.edu] entered the room. (10:34:16 AM) dirakx: aa: yes although this activity it's different in some ways. aa aa__ alsroot aa aa__ (10:34:27 AM) dirakx: aa: and is her (10:34:28 AM) aa: ok, great (10:34:29 AM) mchua is now known as mchua|meeting (10:34:50 AM) dirakx: ok next and last item (10:35:16 AM) dirakx: it's relate to some bryan suggestions but i think he is not here. ? (10:36:01 AM) walter: Bernie could give an update re the eBook. OLE is investing in making it better (10:36:16 AM) dirakx: _bernie: around ? (10:36:34 AM) walter: He may be on #Sugar (10:37:11 AM) walter: but maybe we wait until he and Byan can joion us. (10:37:22 AM) walter: I cannot type today (10:37:24 AM) dirakx: yep better.. (10:37:27 AM) dirakx: ;) (10:37:40 AM) dirakx: anyone wants to add more ? (10:37:43 AM) walter: So, wrap up? It has been 90 minutes. (10:38:13 AM) dirakx: yes. (10:38:26 AM) icarito: ok (10:38:28 AM) icarito: thank you guys (10:38:32 AM) caroline_: yup, I'm heading out the door (10:38:39 AM) dirakx: bye everyone.. (10:38:45 AM) walter: Rafael, will you be writing up minutes? (10:38:49 AM) dirakx: thanks for a good meeting (10:38:53 AM) aa: great (10:38:58 AM) aa: thanks all! (10:39:01 AM) walter: to remind me of all things I volunteered to do? (10:39:05 AM) icarito: federation sugarlabs rules :-P (10:39:06 AM) dirakx: walter: yes (10:39:16 AM) walter: thanks everyone. (10:39:26 AM) dirakx: walter: np. (10:39:32 AM) dirakx: bye all. (10:39:48 AM) aa: bye (10:39:56 AM) walter: ciao (10:40:05 AM) walter: (Caroline, see you in an hour) (10:40:20 AM) walter left the room (quit: "ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008111318]"). (10:40:25 AM) caroline_: 50 minutes :) (10:41:03 AM) homunq_: I missed the meeting? (10:41:15 AM) dirakx: homunq_: yep :) (10:41:25 AM) homunq_: oh well. I can read the log (10:41:29 AM) dirakx: but i'm working on minutes. (10:41:31 AM) dirakx: also.. (10:41:42 AM) aa: homunq_: hi! (10:41:46 AM) homunq_: hi (10:42:22 AM) aa: homunq_: I´ve decided to pay the trip to xocamp myself... (10:42:23 AM) icarito: hay que decirle a walter que hable castellano - somos mayoría absoluta (10:42:27 AM) icarito: :-) (10:42:28 AM) aa: jaja (10:42:36 AM) aa: icarito: +1 (10:42:42 AM) homunq_: yesterday I had a meeting with a rep from an org which could be a home for sugarlabs guatemala or ole guatemala (10:43:01 AM) homunq_: bueno, yo cuento de los dos lados (10:43:13 AM) homunq_: la verdad ingles es mi idioma materna (10:43:36 AM) tomeu1: homunq_: idioma is masculine :p (10:43:53 AM) icarito: those darn exceptions (10:43:55 AM) icarito: lol (10:43:56 AM) homunq_: tomeu: even in catalan? (10:44:02 AM) icarito: we should all just learn esperanto jajaja (10:44:25 AM) icarito: anyway aprovechando que estamos aca los latam (10:44:27 AM) homunq_: lengua, pues (10:44:34 AM) icarito: creo que debemos esforzarnos mas por mostrar una identidad unificada (10:44:42 AM) icarito: para ellos somos una nube (10:44:56 AM) icarito: y no compartimos mucha informacion que podría sernos utiles (10:45:16 AM) icarito: de hecho para nosotros mismos somos una nube tambien (10:45:33 AM) icarito: olpc-sur es un gran comienzo (10:45:35 AM) icarito: un gol de yama (10:45:41 AM) icarito: debemos extenderlo (10:45:51 AM) homunq_: ... I was talking about my meeting yesterday (10:46:20 AM) aa: homunq_: what organization? (10:46:33 AM) homunq_: Guatemala has problems with sectarianism.. aa: Fundacion Argos (10:47:07 AM) homunq_: my idea was to do the Sugarlabs/OLE Guatemala as an inter-organizational committee to avoid that. (10:47:22 AM) aa: is that the president´s wife org? (10:47:29 AM) icarito: homunq_: interesting (10:48:31 AM) homunq_: Argos is science professors; Edulibre is young, less vision but more energy; Prodessa is a giant org that does rural trainings; FundaTICS does open source stuff too; and there's a little open-source/disabled org that I forget the name of. (10:48:33 AM) tomeu1: homunq_: why not an independent organization that partners with other organizations? (10:48:50 AM) homunq_: no the president's wife's thing is SOSEP (10:48:55 AM) homunq_: that is pure politics (10:49:10 AM) homunq_: we have to talk to them, but do not want them to be part of us. (10:49:24 AM) ***aa has to run but would love to hear more (10:49:36 AM) homunq_: tomeu1: because nobody wants to join an organization, they all just want to found one (10:49:43 AM) aa: dirakx: can you include a summary of homunq_s comments in the minutes? (10:49:46 AM) homunq_: so let them, and make an org of orgs. (10:49:54 AM) dirakx: wow.. (10:50:07 AM) tomeu1: homunq_: who is talking about joining? I said partnering with aa aa__ alsroot aa aa__ (10:50:27 AM) dirakx: aa. yep why not. (10:50:39 AM) aa: great! (10:50:41 AM) aa: thanks! (10:50:41 AM) dirakx: i'm afk. (10:50:43 AM) tomeu1: most ngos must be used to partnering with others, right? (10:50:45 AM) dirakx: but yes. (10:50:45 AM) aa: bye all! (10:51:16 AM) aa left the room (quit: "http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). (10:51:54 AM) homunq_: anyway, I guess I'm too late to really discuss this here. (10:52:03 AM) homunq_: were there any OLE folks at this meeting? (10:52:08 AM) icarito: homunq_: walter is gone (10:52:33 AM) homunq_: walter is sugarlabs and not OLE, right? (10:52:33 AM) icarito: not that i know of - btw who are OLE folks? (10:52:40 AM) homunq_: chr__ (10:52:45 AM) homunq_: is the only one I know of (10:52:51 AM) homunq_: who does IRC (10:53:04 AM) homunq_: chris rowe (10:53:25 AM) icarito: never met (10:53:29 AM) homunq_: but I think that walter hangs out with some of them. OLE USA is based in boston. (10:53:46 AM) homunq_: xobot, seen chr__ (10:53:46 AM) xobot: chr__ was last seen on #sugar-meeting 5 days, 18 hours, 47 minutes and 36 seconds ago, saying: it seems like Okular http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okular would be a good reader to work from as well [Thu Dec 4 23:05:45 2008] (10:54:29 AM) homunq_: mchua, here? (10:54:35 AM) homunq_: I mean mchua|meeting (10:54:46 AM) homunq_: is this the meeting, or is it IRL? (10:55:09 AM) ***mchua|meeting is not really here, but the TestingTeam meeting is (in a few minutes) (10:55:10 AM) homunq_: wondering if you know OLE (10:55:22 AM) homunq_: people (10:55:40 AM) mchua|meeting: homunq_: email? for all intents and purposes I'm 'away' from IRC now ;) (10:55:54 AM) homunq_: k, sorry