Deployment Team/Meetings/2008-09-10/Log

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<walter> people are starting to arrive
<dirakx> hello walter >(
<dirakx> :)
<dirakx> and everyone..;-)
<walter> I had put together a tentative agenda in the wiki... http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team#Agenda_.282008-09-10.29
<walter> A few people have added things.
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<walter> It is great to have some OLPC folks here as well.
<dirakx> im editing it atm. also..
<walter> Rafael, did you hear back from any one on OLPC-sur about attending?
<cjb> Morning all.
<tomeu> hi all, I'm lurking
<walter> Hi Chris, Tomeu
<dirakx> walter: some people but i havent seen one of them here right now
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<monyu> Walter: Befana is here
<walter> I was hoping a few folks from Peru would be joining us as well
<befana> hi all
<walter> I don't think everyone knows everyone here... maybe quick introductions?
<dirakx> walter: here he have people form colombia though ..monyu and befana have work with pilots in bogota
<dirakx> yep...why not...
<dirakx> im rafael ortiz from colombia
<walter> I can begin: I'm walter bender and I have been tasked by the Sugar Labs board to get the ball rolling on deployment needs
<dirakx> and i-m hoping to help in the deployment team.
<walter> We want to be supportive of any needs in the field and also build lines of communication to the development community
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<dirakx> anyone else want to introduce ?
<befana> im pilar saenz from colombia too, i'm going to boston next ween to attend the learning workshop at 1cc
<walter> Maybe we can meet while you are in town...
<monyu> I'm Gloria from Colombia. I've been worked whit Pilar and Rafael for 2 years.
<befana> walter: of course, thanks
<tomeu> I'm a sugar developer interested in getting more direct feedback from real users
<walter> Perhaps the main goal of the meeting is to solicit ideas about what Sugar Labs should be doing vis-a-vis deployment
<walter> As Tomeu suggests, feedback to developers is very important
<dirakx> some of the needings regarding that is define ways of communication
<walter> Maybe we can start with examples of what works and what doesn't work?
<dirakx> we have for example olpc-sur mailist and especific mailists in countries..
<walter> Have any of you seen, for example, the wiki Bill Kerr's students are working on?
<walter> http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/
<walter> Of course, there is the ore formal blog for ceilbal
<walter> ^ore^more ^ceilbal^ceibal
<dirakx> and in other countries we are begining to see work focused to students,
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<walter> And recently, the teachers in Peru compiled a list of feedback about Sugar...
<walter> but it was to a private list, so it wasn't as impactful as it could have been
<dirakx> walter: yeah i havent seen that one.
<walter> We had written a deployment guide for OLPC: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_guide
<walter> It has seen only a very little bit of updating since it was first posted.
<walter> Is that because it is practically perfect in every way or of little use to actual deployments?
<walter> And Bill Kerr has tried to document how to use Sugar when you don't (yet) have XO laptops in his blog.
<befana> walter: maybe we need to adapter the deployment guide for smaller deploymets
<walter> Great idea!!
<walter> What are the concerns for smaller deployments? Can we start a page in the wiki to move this along?
<dirakx> i think befana can do a wiki page of it surely.;-)
<monyu> Walter: I don't understand.. What do you wanna do whit this Development Guide?... I've seen other deployment guides for activities.
<walter> What I had in mind was a step by step guide on how to set up Sugar/OLPC in a classroom
<walter> And how to leverage it for enhancing learning.
<dirakx> that guide it-s been helpfull but not wided spreaded..
<walter> In the Sugar manual (and Activity manuals) we just wrote, we tried to include tips for teachers
<walter> how to best use the technology for learning...
<dirakx> i mean the amyority of the people doesn-t now about it.
<walter> But there is so much knowledge in the field that isn't being shared... too much is being rediscovered... we should stand on each others shoulders
<monyu> Ok
<dirakx> it would be ok to start a deployment guide in spanish for example?
<befana> walter: we need feedback from teachers and students
<dirakx> not just translating the english one..
<monyu> yes. is a good Idea because in this moment there are many pilots getting ready in south america,
<befana> dirakx: i agree, and i want to work in it
<dirakx> to include all the specificals in Latin America
<walter> Are there more structural things we can do to get information flowing?
<dirakx> maybe a deployment mailist or IRC _
<dirakx> ?
<monyu> yes, a deployment list
<dirakx> befana: olpc-sur has been great about it at least for south america.
<walter> Do we need more lists? I thin OLPC-sur and IAEP are OK for now?
<befana> a faq about deployment?
<walter> Or do people (teachers) feel uncomfortable with these lists?
<walter> What would be in the FAQ that is different from a guide?
<dirakx> teachers form uruguay seem very confortable about it..
<walter> There is a page in the OLPC guide by Carla that is a list of tips and suggestions
<walter> is that what you mean?
<dirakx> walter: i think also that all this pages should be actively translated and localized.
<walter> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Deployment_Guide/tips
<walter> So we should be very organized about translations... good point and actionable.
<dirakx> we need people that translate relevant issues to spanish and some others that translate all the inputs to english.
<befana> walter: i don't see information about contacts, how to begin, who we can talk about.... etc
<dirakx> not just talking about wiki also mailists.
<monyu> I think we have to find a way for teachers comunication. What i mean is channels for teachers. They can share their experiences with XO laptops and help to other teachers too
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<walter> Are teachers comfortable with IRC? It may make sense in Uruguay, but less sense in Peru where connectivity is less available?
<dirakx> yes, uruguay is more involved in IRC channels, but peru not much.
<monyu> walter: For teachers is not confortble, but I think we have to find a way
<befana> walter: i think so many small organisations wants to work with olpc but they can do a 10000 xo deployment and they can use usar in other devices
<walter> We could make a special version of xoIRC for teachers that launches a teacher channel by default
<befana> can't
<walter> How about a teacher journal that is uploaded once per month to a common place?
<dirakx> walter: good idea.
<walter> this may work in Peru, where the teachers aren't on line except for Pay Day.
<walter> The journal could prompt for specific types of feedback?
<walter> But it may be invasive as well.
<monyu> walter: Thar are working directly at classrooms an using the XO, I think maybe we can ask they what they need ( a IRC Channel, a Chat, a list, a wiki) and develop an specific solution for they
<walter> The problem we have on this end is we cannot ask because we are one step removed
<dirakx> in my point of view teachers maybe more confortable writing stuff not interacively..like blogs and mails. *so a journal would be OK
<walter> If we can encourage them to share their journals...
<walter> We can make it anonymous as an option too.
<monyu> I mean a direct comunication. Many teachers read their mail twice a week
<walter> Maybe the wikispace tools that Bill Kerr is using would be good for some.
<walter> Would teachers object to a once per week email with questions?
<walter> There used to be a system called the Answer Garden which could answer any question...
<dirakx> that should be fine.
<befana> that is a very good idea
<walter> If you asked a question, it routed it to others and when an answer was given, it was passed back to you.
<dirakx> but also i guees that monyu is refering that once in a while developers should meet in person with teachers and students?
<walter> We have an offer for a robotic dialog system for Sugar... do you think teachers would be interested in that sort of help?
<walter> Meeting face-to-face is ideal. We are trying to find a way to hold regional meetings on a regular basis.
<dirakx> wow...that would be really cool :)
<dirakx> developers should asist to events organized in deployment countries..
<walter> Can we leverage existing meeting that teachers already attend? How do we find out what forums are best to use?
<befana> this is the way, we need to meet each other
<walter> I should talk to OLPC about taking better advantage of their Learning Workshops as well. It would be easy to add a Sugar component. But this is an area of complete disconnect at the moment.
<dirakx> teachers are proclined to use forums or tools provided by the schools they are working on and also others provided by education authorities.
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<dirakx> is it so befana?
<befana> dirakx: yes, it is
<walter> We had been working with FISL to include a teachers day at their conference... don't know how successful it was...
<walter> Did anyone attend?
<dirakx> dunno.
<walter> It would seem like an ideal opportunity for cross pollination of cultures
<befana> :( not yet
<befana> walter: do you know this one: http://www.ups.edu.ec/portal/page/portal/congresosl
<tomeu> putting some teachers from every deployment to talk on a mailing list wouldn't be easier?
<tomeu> then they can arrange their meeting ;)
<dirakx> so we have to interact more in all the senses not just virtually but also personally
<walter> I think we need to do both
<walter> Greg D. is working up a list of important events at which Sugar should be represented
<walter> But I think he is engineering-focused
<walter> We need a similar list for the learning/deployment side of things
<befana> i agree
<walter> I am going, for example, to a meeting for K-12 educators who advocate FOSS
<dirakx> we can make one and put it on sugar labs wiki some where.
<walter> http://www.k12openminds.org
<walter> Can we list all such events?
<dirakx> yeah... i think we can work with befana and monyu to do so.
<befana> but we need more local information
<walter> They can help with Sur. We need all the world
<walter> But mayeb we make an example from LA?
<befana> local forum, meetings,
<dirakx> yep.
<walter> Do the regional OLPC groups attract teachers? I think the DC group does.
<walter> Maybe we better leverage those resources as well.
<dirakx> for example in Uruguay and Colombia the comunication has been straight forward.
<walter> Yes. How can we spread those successes?
<dirakx> between OLPC volunteer groups and theachers.
<walter> How did, for example, Colombia, which doesn't have a major deployment yet, get started?
<walter> Can you guys write a guide to getting organized and reaching teachers?
<befana> yes, we can
<dirakx> i think we need to documentate more..wirte more emails, and begin discussions on the wiki..
<dirakx> walter: the effort in Colombia begun independently from he goverment..
<dirakx> some NGO-s are working in small deployments at bogota, medellin and other cities.
<walter> I think the grassroots nature of the Colombia experience is important to share
<monyu> and some foundations too
<walter> I've been creating some stubs in the wiki as we talk for things we need to do...
<dirakx> and we expect to have major deployments in regions.
<walter> http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team
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<walter> Is there more to discuss re communications? Or should we talk about other aspects of support?
<dirakx> move on to support.
<walter> Have people taken a look at the FLOSS manuals?
<walter> Are they useful? Heading in the right direction?
<walter> Are there other documentation needs we are neglecting?
<befana> walter: i like it, but we need FLOSS manuals in spanish too
<walter> There is a reasonably good mechanism for translating the manuals...
<dirakx> we need also other kinds of documentation like perhaps printed guides?
<walter> But we need someone to do it.
<walter> The FLOSS manuals have a PDF output that is formated to be printed as a book.
<dirakx> oh nice to know
<walter> http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/FM_Sugar_05Sep08.pdf
<befana> walter: what is your idea to translatins?
<walter> It is not obvious, but it is on the top left of the sidebar menu
<befana> +for translations?
<walter> http://translate.flossmanuals.net/
<walter> I've not used the tool, but it does side-by-side translation and keeps reasonable track of changes
<walter> Someone is already working on Italian
<dirakx> so maybe some of the people at olpc-sur could help in doing the translation?
<dirakx> i can write an email asking for help.
<dirakx> and also i can help of course.
<dirakx> ;-)
<walter> But before we translate, is it the right content?
<dirakx> should we add a teachers focused section ?
<befana> dirakx: we can write to rap-ceibal too
<walter> I tried to come up with examples of how to use things, not just how to do them... See the tutorial section the Write manual, for example
<dirakx> befana: sure
<walter> e.g., http://en.flossmanuals.net/Write/PeerEditing
<walter> How can we encourage more of this?
<dirakx> we can spread the word and include some translation jams in local events..
<walter> I'd like to get more contributions to the writing too, but maybe that won't happen until we have a Spanish version
<walter> But let's plan on a sprint then... push this fast and furious
<befana> :)
<dirakx> for example the comming events in peru and uruguay.
<dirakx> an sprint would be fine.
<walter> there just was an event in Uruguay. Is another planned? (or is Week 2 this coming weekend?)
<tomeu> ceibal jam
<walter> That is what I thought.
<dirakx> there is another planned i think..
<walter> So, can we wrap up with some specific action items?
<walter> (1) I've love help fleshing out the links on http://sugarlabs.org/go/Deployment Team
<dirakx> http://xo.org.uy/
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<walter> (2) I made a stub for a Guide to a small Sugar deployment
<walter> (3) ditto for Guide for Latin American Sugar deployments
<walter> (4) and Guide to community outreach
<walter> (5) Plus, I started a list of Meeting opportunities
<dirakx> another link regarding that http://www.fedaro.info/
<walter> (6) We need to organize the translation sprints
<dirakx> 25/28 septiembre el salto uruguay
<walter> (7) and most important, engage teachers in giving feedback on the lists
<walter> If Rafael gets the word out on these tasks to sur and I send a note to iaep, that is a start
<dirakx> ok will do.
<dirakx> :)
<walter> Plus, if we set a date for a translation sprint?
<befana> ihelp him too
<walter> And Pilar can help get the guides started? (In Spanish is fine)
<walter> Any other concrete action items from today?
<befana> ok, i can do that :)
<walter> I'll write up minutes and post them to the wiki
<dirakx> should i contact the organization of this event in uruguay to maybe include a translation sprint ?
<dirakx> walter: thx walter.
<walter> BTW, does the machine translation at the top of the wiki pages serve any purpose for the teachers? Are they aware of it?
<walter> It may be worth adding to the floss manual too
<dirakx> walter: no that translation is dumb :-(
<walter> Too dumb to be of any use?
<dirakx> walter: in some cases not..bt it gets you started.
<walter> I would think that until the human translation is done, it gives at least some help
<befana> sometimes it is incomprehensible
<dirakx> FLOSS manual sprint would be nice...can that be set up ?
<dirakx> have peolple at floss manuals done a sprint outside US?
<walter> I've got to sign off in a minute... I'll be back in 10-15 minutes if people are still around...
<walter> The floss manuals project is run out of Amsterdam.
<dirakx> ok
<walter> They work anywhere
<befana> fine
<walter> I'm back. Anyone still here?
<befana> i'm here
<walter> I'll write up the minutes from today's discussion. We covered a lot of ground.
<walter> Thanks for your input.
<befana> walter: where i can find you next week?
<walter> I'll be in Cambridge all week.
<walter> Maybe send me an email when you know your schedule.
<befana> walter: ok, thanks
<walter> One last thing for the group: shall we try to meet again in two weeks, same time, same channel?
<tomeu> soudns good to me
<dirakx> fine
<walter> We'll be sure to mesh with Greg S.'s schedule too.
<dirakx> oh yeah..
<tomeu> and bring someone from bigger deployments?
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<tomeu> heh ;)
<dirakx> he wanted to be here badly.:)
<dirakx> tomeu: yeah someone from peru and uruguay
<tomeu> yup
<walter> I'll try to make sure someone from Peru is in attendance. Also, Yama will be available, I hope. He is in Bolivia right now.
<tomeu> juliano would be good to have here as well
<aa> Hello!
<walter> Yes. Explicit invites.
<tomeu> someone from the learning team?
<dirakx> i-ll poke yama also.
  • aa is from Uruguay
<walter> Plus I'll push to get Carla to join us!!
<dirakx> aa: hello.
<tomeu> hi aa, was just saying I missed you ;)
<aa> tomeu: :)
<dirakx> walter: could david join us?
<walter> aa: the log of the discussion is on the wiki: Deployment Team/MeetingLog/2008-09-10
<aa> walter: thanks!
<walter> Maybe David would join us... he seems shy about speaking in a pubic forum...
<dirakx> or maybe we have a colombian friend claudia urrea she could join us also.
<tomeu> may be that
<walter> Claudia would be good.
<walter> and Juliano, as already mentioned.
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<walter> Rafael, let's make sure we get these people to join in next time. If we both ask them...
<dirakx> ok np
<walter> Well, let's call this meeting to a close.
<walter> thank you.
<dirakx> to all. :)